Scranton is in Growth Mode (Wilkes-Barre, Dunmore: middle-class, crime, neighborhood)

[scrantonluna]

JD, you seem to have a good grasp on surrounding metropolitan
areas.

In your opinion, which infrastructure ideas discussed recently would
provide the greatest benefit to the Scranton area? Regional rail
service to NJ or NY? Local rail service between Scranton and Wilkes-barre?

These are the larger debates, I'm sure you have seen a few others as well.
What works here and what just doesn't?

Thanks

[JD CSummit]

My opinion is that the ROI on a rail service to NY is much more beneficial to us than a regional or express service is to Wilkes Barre. That said, i fear like Weluvpa pointed out in this thread or another, that the driving force behind that rail is garbage. If thats the case, the ROI goes right out the window to be honest. Anything our area would gain in the way of tourism, commuter ease, etc is immediately washed out by the continued and perpetuated demolition of our enviroment at these landfills. i think the best way this rail service will succeed is thru tourism into NYC. I know tehre are a lot of people who drive to the city on weekends, if half of those people were able to use the train, i think the train instantly gets credibility. Im a believer in this train if its not for the garbage.

That said, i can actually see the benefit of an express service or something of that nature between here and WB. The reason for that is simple: I-81. Did you knwo that the stretch of 81 between Hazleton and Clarks Summit, per capita, is one of the most travelled stretches of major interstate in the country. That stretch gets a lot of wear and tear and use. It may be beneficial, who knows.

There are plenty of things i'd like to see here before a rail service but i know taht a rail service could help facilitate some of those very things. Thats a very big could though...

[scrantonluna]

What other things would you like to see?

In terms of business ventures, Scranton is a tough town. Without
the population or downtown foot traffic of other cities, it takes a
good business model and a really good grasp of the wants of the
customer to make anything fly around here.

That being said, good ideas are rewarded.

If I had a say, I think my focus would be on historic preservation
and infrastructure. With new entities such as the medical college
getting set to grow in a big way, I think we need to make sure that
the support structure is in place. I also think that the historical
society and zoning board need to start protecting historic properties,
establishing historic districts, and setting guidelines for any new
structures erected in those specific areas.

For a long time, I believe that Scranton was happy with any sort
of development, no matter what it was. That will have to change at
some point if they want to preserve the downtown and allow it to
grow in a healthy and profitable way.

While we have been lucky on several projects, you cannot always
count on the developers to make good decisions. The city and
the chamber need to establish a solid vision to both guide and
support any new ventures.

In the case of the former Quints Army Navy, many of these
thoughts apply.

I wish I could recall who made the suggestion, but it had been brought
up a while back that Scranton could do with a little reinvention, naming
or re-naming certain areas as 'districts.' For something so simple, I do
see the benefit. With the heavy influx of outside people due to the several
learning institutions in the city I do not think it would be too difficult to
repurpose areas and have their new identities be successful.

One thing that I would love to see is an indoor/outdoor fresh food or
farmers market. In some places, they even have an integrated food
court with on-demand chefs who will cook whatever you purchase
to your instruction. As we get more people actually living in the
downtown, I think something like this might be realized.

[JD CSummit]

This post is going to get ripped to shreds after im done typing, but im going to go for it anyway. i'd like to see more re-investment by Scranton residents in Scranton areas. There is no reason for the main entry points into the city to look as depressed as they do. Yeah, the U views coming down the Central Scranton Exp are nice but what about on the left hand side? it looks like a war-zone. Im sorry if im offending anyone by saying that but the only way to get outside investment is to show outsiders that insiders arent afraid to invest either.

Another thing i'd like to see in Scranton is a change in attitude for reaching out to new businesses. Why is that we constantly have to reach out to a Merrill Lynch or Morgan Stanley or someone on that upper level. If you want white collar jobs downtown, recruit white collar jobs in the mid levels and work your way up. The more feeders you have, the more big timers you'll eventually get. Think about it this way: Arguably, the two biggest downfalls of Scranton Business are Taxes and Infrastructure. If i'm the CEO of a Merrill or someone like that, im going to look for tax breaks and high speed services. A start up or mid level company may not have the clout to force those things at the negotiating table. One of the Chamber of Commerce's dumbest moves ever was giving the KOZ to Fleet Bank. There were so many "small" (parantheses for small b/c im talking 60-100 employees) companies that applied for a KOZ that same year and Fleet, b/c of name and draw, got it. How long were they here?

Other than that, i think the makings are in place for more growth. I firmly believe the med school is going to open more doors for the REGION (not just Scranton) than any of us realize, the U continues to grow and improve, and there are finally cranes up in Scranton rather than signs about future projects.

[scrantonluna]

I agree on most points. The homes along the expressway were
company homes, I have a picture somewhere of when they were
new. You have to figure though, these were low cost homes,
probably owned by low income families, and they are right off an
expressway - don't know how much they care about appearances.

A bright point would be the revitalization of the building next to La
Trattoria, at the bottom of Moosic St. I believe they specialize in
cheese steaks? It looks as though they really sunk some money
into the property and did it right.

I think one of the biggest hurdles, and this goes back to the
appearance/investment argument, is that Scranton seems to have
an overly abundant number of multi-family and other high occupancy
rental units. Combined with out of state landlords, this leads to poor
curb appeal and blight, and quite often will bring down the rest of the
block.

Another valid point is the taxes. While they have been trying to get
around the high taxes by offering KOZ exemptions, this only serves to
create havoc when the tax free status expires. it never seems to
make sense, but lower taxes always equate to higher revenue.

KOZs are a hot-button item right now to be sure. Personally I'd like to
see more KOZs, but with more restrictive guidelines. If the chamber
puts together a study with a 'wish list' of what types of businesses they
show will do well in a particular area, they should be able to offer KOZ
status, possibly assistance in the form of start up costs for targeted
small businesses they deem important, and help market existing real estate
to out of town investors.

I would love to see a 'Scranton liaison' office be created to attract out of
town companies and investors, but that is really the job of the chamber,
isn't it? I have a friend down there, I'll have to inquire as to what they try
to target. Truthfully Scranton should probably have it's own chamber of
commerce, and the Greater Scranton chamber employed for just that,
Lackawanna County and the greater Scranton area. Current decisions
would almost certainly have to be either at a loss to the city or a loss to
the surrounding municipalities - how can you satisfy both?

I'm not knocking the chamber by any means, but they may find a need to
expand or diverge (or both) in the coming years. Long range planning on
a county level in terms of sprawl and zoning is also key to success.

[weluvpa]

The most recent article(this week) on the rail system to NY indicated that there would only be about 45 people using the train to commute from the Scranton and that does not justify the train for Scranton, so why on earth would we be restoring rail beds owned by a successful business man all the way to Scranton from Stroudsburg for 45 riders?

The two major landfills in the area that recieve the bulk of NJ and NY trash by truck will certainly benefit from the speed of delivery and volume of trash that can moved by a train wouldn't they?

Doing that would give the project a foothold in Pennsylvania and connect the Poconos, home to many people who commute to work in New York City and northern New Jersey. A study showed about 2,800 riders a day would use the train by 2025.

The study found only about 45 daily riders would come from Scranton.

Mr. Malski said the plan remains to build the railroad all the way to Scranton, crediting U.S. Sens. Arlen Specter and Bob Casey for pushing to keep the project moving ahead. Tracks between Scranton and Delaware Water Gap are in place, though they would have to be upgraded for passenger trains, he said.

"I'm not interested in something that doesn't run all the way to Scranton," Mr. Casey said Wednesday.

I wonder what the campaign contribution lists say........Casey is not interested in anything that doesn't go to Scranton....FOR 45 RIDERS are you kidding me.

I don't care what anyone of you guys say this train will hurt the city more in the long run then it will help.

[scrantonluna]

Are they going to have jumping off point at the Gap?
A ride to the Gap itself might be a nice way to spend
a Saturday.

The point is not the 45 riders, it's the fact that once the
train is up and running that number will be substantially
greater. The reason there are only 45 riders is due to the
fact that there is no reliable mode of public transportation
available, so why would people commute from Scranton to NY?

Establishing rail service makes the vastly less expensive cost
of living in NEPA a viable and attractive option for those in NY
and NJ, or even people from out the area all-together who are
looking for employment in NY/NJ.

Over time this will increase ridership, increase the local population,
increase the median income, increase investment, increase tax
revenue, increase disposable income and local spending, and do
nothing but bolster the local economy.

[weluvpa]

I guess I'm not as excited as you guys are about the city and area being overrun by people from NY and NJ......I still don't think that it will the economic windfall for the region that you might and I strongly feel that it will in the end take away from the city and its heritage and replace it with a cookie cutter NJ..NY suburbanite crap that the poconos are dealing with and have become.

Maybe we should rename the city Scranton Country Place..SCP because its already heading in that direction and this train will undoubtly seal the deal and ruin this city.

I don't want to live in suburban NJ, NY city that is fed by a train, if I did I would be living in Madison or Morristown NJ....

We are not building an economic base for business here if all we will do is export our workforce to NJ and NY by train. More time should be spent on trying to figure out how to make our region/city more attractive to companies so that the people living here can have jobs HERE and support their families. Not trying to figure out how to get our people out to other states to work.

They get our workers and we get their trash in more ways then one.

Just maybe and I mean maybe if our mayor would take his head out of his political contributors arse's he would see that if he just lowered the business privilege, mercantile and wage taxes that we would a very attractive city for companies to open in. What do they do instead, they offer corporate welfare in the form of KOZ's and they are sucked up by local businessmen that have and will continue to do nothing of any true value with them other then saving money and lining their pockets.

True economic change will come once we have people that actually care about the city and its people in charge.

[JD CSummit]

I dont disagree with you at all, thats why i said that Scranton residents need to invest in their own city before any real investment can or will happen from those outside the city. Yeah, a group from NJ bought the brooks, but he bought it so cheap that he can sit on it for years and not do a thing. I agree with you on the KOZs as well. Im a little bit more liberal with them then you are, but unlike you, i dont pay taxes in Scranton so its easy for me to be more cavalier with them than you. If i were a resident and saw all this taxless property, id be pissed. If i were a developer looking to get into Scranton i would do the very thing most of them are trying to do. My suggestion early about building the city's book of business falls right in line (i thought) with what you were saying.

My personal feeling is that the mayor and the other powers that be (god awful chamber of commerce) use the KOZ as a discount w/o seeing first if they need to use the discount. Good salespeople dont dangle the carrot until they think they need to, bad salespeople dangle the carrot from the beginning and then fall on their faces when customers ask for more later.

[johnqpublic]

I was a member of the chamber for a few years, but no more, Its nothing more than a self promoting fraternity/sorority that throws a a meet and greet beer bash once a month..... A waste of money.....but they DO keep the $$$$ amongst their upper members!!!!