Genesis Wildlife Center: Safety & Finances (new info) (Scranton: college, association)

[D Dozen]

Originally Posted by scrantonluna

$20 says Miller euthanizes the animals rather than give them up....

You are a heartless person how dare you say that. I hope you don't have any animals of your own I feel sorry for them.

[D Dozen]

Originally Posted by weluvpa

I don't usuallt take a losing bet......Your right though....This is bad for the center and bad for the mayor. It blew up in both of their faces and honestly they get what they deserve for getting in bed together......Miller should have known better to go into this without a conttact and Doherty should have known that this wouldn't make it....BUT I think he thought he was going to be somewhere in Harrisburg or DC at this point and isn't.

Your talking about little lives here how could you people live with yourself. I bet that you would be right up front clapping if these animals are killed.

[D Dozen]

Originally Posted by mbs7

Again, a responsible person does NOT acquire animals until they are certain that they will have the resources to care for them. I do not hold the mayor blameless in this situation. At the very least, the city did not demand enough accountability from the center. Nevertheless, whatever the mayor's part in this may be, Margaret Miller has no good excuse for having gotten those tigers. Absolutely none. In getting them, she acted incredibly irresponsibly. And what on earth was she thinking when she let the lemurs reproduce?????

I think that if Margaret Miller had behaved a lot more responsibly, she would have had a lot more donations and a lot more volunteers. It's time for the GWC to stop making excuses and trying to blame all of its problems on other people. You don't go out and get two tigers because someone has "promised" you that maybe someday there will be resources to support them. You make sure you have those resources in place BEFORE you get the tigers. And when you get the tigers, you do NOT get them from a disreputable place like the G.W. Exotic Animal Park!!!

It is the people who are running the center who need to be educated about how to care for animals, not the people who are complaining about the center.

Margaret Miller has now admitted that she is "truly sorry" for getting the tigers. I am encouraged that she at least understands, in retrospect, that she made a mistake with the tigers. I hope she will also reconsider some of the other unfortunate choices she has made in regard to the management of the center.

The center is managed quite well and the volunteers are plentiful and those babies did need a home.

[D Dozen]

Originally Posted by scrantonluna

The sad thing is that this could have been a win-win situation, and the fact that is has not been, will probably put the last nail in the coffin of the Nay Aug Zoo.

I just hope they allow the animals to be placed in other facilities.

The right people could have made this work - the entire rear of the building could have been used for a big cat habitat, with a couple primates in the front, and that's it. No fish, no turtles, no birds, no alligators, just two cats, 2-3 monkeys, and two big enclosures. Might have cost what, 100-150k to fence it all in? After a couple years they could have even added water features. It still would not have been ideal, but it would have been humane, and maybe even an enriching experience for the people of Scranton under the right management. As it stands now, my house cats have more room than the big cats at Genesis, and they even get to go outside and play in the grass in warmer weather.

Take a look at the Seneca Park Zoo in NY - they started with a building virtually identical to the Nay Aug Zoo. Through years of hard work, proper planning and management, they have flourished. Too bad Genesis did not have the patience, skills, or foresight to take proper advantage of a good opportunity.

Is it even legal to take a capuchin monkey to a council meeting?

The right people being the city and how big do you think the back of the building is theres a rock wll back there. Tell me how many times does it take to do a study to see if a building can be buitl. Was it ok that the City spent not once but two times $175.000 from Rendell to do these studies...

[D Dozen]

Originally Posted by scrantonluna

Because then they cannot rape the public and the city for funding if they are not in Nay Aug. I think we have just about proven that the 50k a year from the city covers their operating costs, and may even surpass them. What happens with the surplus if they are shuttered? 126k makes for a nice retirement package....

They already gave their list of reasons why they animals will not be relocated - the receiving centers must 'meet their approval,' and one wants Miller to sign an agreement that she will never again own a big cat. She will not sign and they will find fault with every facility interested in taking the animals.

NO WHERE ELSE will they get the support that the city has given them. That is why there is no mention of relocating.

You haven't proven anything and as far as support did any of you support the center? I think not. I don't know where you are getting all these figures for the money but they are wrong. The center I heard only received $10.00 in donations one day. It's a suggested donation to get in $2.00 adult $1.00 child and not everyone puts in. So where is all this money coming from?

[D Dozen]

Originally Posted by scrantonluna

Bottom line, Genesis was granted an audition by the city, and they blew it. Better management, better decisions, and better public opinion probably would have led to a new building. Who in their right mind would give these people a 10 million dollar facility?

Doherty didn't tell MIller to over crowd the place, he didn't tell her to keep it like a s***house, and he didn't tell her to have a lousy attitude. Genesis has over what, 126k in surplus?

Genesis Wildlife Center - a glorified cat lady bilking the city and the public, with the animals caught in the middle.

Even the old Nay Aug Zoo, while small, was well kept and not overcrowded. They did the best with what they had, not pass the buck and blame the city.

Prior to Chris Doherty, Genesis had to pay for building expenses, property insurance, utilities, etc. They now have all of this for FREE, PLUS a 60k bonus from the city, and they are STILL crying poverty??? How did they ever manage before?

Let's not forget that just the location alone probably brings in twenty times the amount of CASH donations.

Who are you kidding? All the accidents there and being closed down as one of the worst kept zoos... It's not over crowed you tell me where what cages?
She was a private facility not open to the public and her biggest mistake was coming here because you people of Scranton are very ungrateful and can't appreciate what she was trying to do by request of your Mayor. And she has many bills to pay on her own,vet care for the animals, workers comp, insurance on the animals, food for the animals, cleaning supplies the list can go on and on. Like I said you people are ungrateful.

[mbs7]

Originally Posted by D Dozen

It's up to the veterinarian to say when to fix the animals and lemurs are endangered. Who gives you the right to say it's over crowded? The Game Commission didn't say it was.

There is a legitimate breeding program (the Species Survival Plan) to help preserve endangered species. See:

Association of Zoos and Aquariums

The SSP program ensures that closely related animals are not allowed to breed, and that all animals are cared for properly. If Ms. Miller wished to participate in the program, she should have taken steps to set up a facility that could have become accredited by the AZA. She did not take those steps.

Neutering animals--including lemurs--in order to prevent inbreeding or to prevent the birth of animals that cannot be properly cared for is a perfectly acceptable and responsible action, and it is an action that most vets would fully support.

I do not know where you have been getting your information on animal care, but it seems you have been poorly informed. If you wish to learn more about modern standards of animal care, you may want to begin by visiting the website of the Association of Zoos and Aquariums, at:

Association of Zoos and Aquariums

As for the Game Commission (and the USDA), it is the opinion of most reputable animal experts that current laws regarding animal care are substandard and do not fully reflect the many scientific discoveries that have been made about animal behavior and health over the last few decades. This is why the standards of accrediting organizations, such as the AZA, go far beyond those required by the PA Game Commission or the USDA.

[mbs7]

Originally Posted by D Dozen

Who are you kidding? All the accidents there and being closed down as one of the worst kept zoos... It's not over crowed you tell me where what cages?
She was a private facility not open to the public and her biggest mistake was coming here because you people of Scranton are very ungrateful and can't appreciate what she was trying to do by request of your Mayor. And she has many bills to pay on her own,vet care for the animals, workers comp, insurance on the animals, food for the animals, cleaning supplies the list can go on and on. Like I said you people are ungrateful.

I think that some of the posters here (including me) remain puzzled by the fact that the GWC's tax forms, as submitted to the IRS, do not appear to match the financial picture that the GWC has presented to the public. I am not a tax expert and I am not going to speculate on the reasons for the apparent discrepancy. I do think, however, that Ms. Miller should be asked to explain the discrepancy.

[weluvpa]

Originally Posted by D Dozen

She was a private facility not open to the public and her biggest mistake was coming here because you people of Scranton are very ungrateful and can't appreciate what she was trying to do by request of your Mayor.

He is not my mayor and I was against this from the beginning in 2001. Let me ask you this since you seem to be in the know...

1. Have you actually read the tax papers on the GWC?
2. Why did she leave the private facility again?
3. How long have you been with the GWC?
4. Why did the tigers need a new home? Whose idea was it to bring them to the GWC?

Are you anything but an uninformed volunteer trying to plead a case of your own or are you authorized to speak on behalf of the GWC and Ms. Miller?

[scrantonluna]

D Dozen - This topic has been discussed here, numerous times, and at great, great length. I have given money to Genesis in the past, and encouraged others to do the same, until I realized that money is not the issue here. NO AMOUNT OF MONEY WILL EVER FIX GENESIS.

I know more than I am saying in these posts, but I can promise that none of my comments are made without a lot of research and thought on my part. Everyone here DOES care about the animals, that's why they want to see them OUT of the center.

Don't you think that the center could use 186k for improvements and animal care? Really? Fine, ask Ms. Miller for the GWC debit card, she's already got it.

As a side note, I would like to let everyone know that Genesis will be hosting a fundraiser this Saturday morning. It's $25 at the door, and they will be serving waffles with marshmallow topping. See you all there!