Wind Turbines On The Mountain (Plymouth, Avon: 2009, university, taxi)

[BLUEDIAMOND64]

Here's more Info for Pennsylvanians: PA Wind Farms

[thecoalman]

Originally Posted by Jungle George

Hey coalman...do those costs include shipping coal to Florida?? We got LOTS of sand, but no coal....

That's the money you the taxpayer pay to subsidize the electric generated by wind as it cannot compete with coal. For example the residential market price in 2007 was around $90 per megawatt hour so when you add in the subsidization that the U.S. taxpayer is paying for wind it's actually $114. Without the subsidization these projects would not exist because they cannot compete on a level playing field. While on the topic the figure for solar is nearly the same.

Coal is shipped their via rail, certainly adds to the cost but overall it's a drop in the bucket. FYI the Polk plant one of the cleanest burning coal plants in the world is located in Florida and is supposedly capable of carbon capture but because of legal reasons that has gone untested.

Down here, FPL is now building a solar power plant about 40 miles from us (again, harnessing what we have lots of every day!!). They posted 100 job openings & had 2300 applications in 2 hours!!!

There was recent study released from a Spanish University that estimated for every 1 job created in the solar industry it destroyed 2.2 jobs elsewhere. That does not include jobs that might have been created elsewhere had the enormous investment they have made in wind solar been spent elsewhere.

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY: LESSONS FROM THE SPANISH RENEWABLES BUBBLE

Europe’s current policy and strategy for supporting the so-called “green jobs” or renewable energy dates back to 1997, and has become one of the principal justifications for U.S. “green jobs” proposals. Yet an examination of Europe’s experience reveals these policies to be terribly economically counterproductive.

This study is important for several reasons. First is that the Spanish experience is considered a leading example to be followed by many policy advocates and politicians. This study marks the very first time a critical analysis of the actual performance and impact has been made. Most important, it demonstrates that the Spanish/EU-style “green jobs” agenda now being promoted in the U.S. in fact destroys jobs, detailing this in terms of jobs destroyed per job created and the net destruction per installed MW.

The study’s results demonstrate how such “green jobs” policy clearly hinders Spain’s way out of the current economic crisis, even while U.S. politicians insist that rushing into such a scheme will ease their own emergence from the turmoil.


--------------page 38-----------------

This is to say that for every renewable energy job that the State manages to finance, we can be confident that on average 2.2 jobs will be destroyed, to which we have to add those jobs that the non-subsidized investment would have created.

From the Wall Street Journal:

Green Joblessness

To little fanfare this month, BP closed a solar-cell factory in Madrid, laying off 480 workers. But wait, aren't "green-collar" jobs the wave of the future -- the kind of employment that will only grow and "can't be outsourced," as President Obama likes to say?

Spain happens to be the country that the President often cites as his role model for the Green Jobs Revolution. It's also the source of an important new study that explains how expensive these jobs are -- and why Spain's renewable-energy business is a bubble waiting to burst. The study, released last month by researchers at Universidad Rey Juan Carlos, uses data from the Spanish government and European Union to demonstrate that each job created in Spain's renewables industry costs as much as 2.2 jobs elsewhere in the economy.

The study's authors calculate that jobs in Spain's solar, wind and hydroelectric power industries were subsidized to the tune of more than €570,000 apiece from 2000 to 2008 -- a total exceeding €28.6 billion. And that figure only includes the extra cost to energy consumers of being forced by the government to buy renewable energy at prices several times higher than market rates for conventional power. The authors didn't calculate direct subsidies, such as grants to build solar farms, because the government doesn't even know how much money it has handed out to the renewables industry. But the direct-subsidies tally is at least €1.1 billion.

[PITTSTON2SARASOTA]

Originally Posted by I LOVE PA!

That whole concept of 'the grid' ...just beyond my comprehension. I just don't get it...can anyone explain simply....???

Oh..AND YES. JG...they are awesome to look at. I have some near me, and I always enjoy the view.

The grid is meant to balance electrical power generation with user demand. Power plants are interconnected into "medium networks"; which in turn connect into larger grids....the electricity needs to be "directed" to where it is needed.The power plant's location is not always the main factor; in relation to where the electricity is being "sent".

[PITTSTON2SARASOTA]

Originally Posted by TheHighHat

Here's more Info for Pennsylvanians: PA Wind Farms

Thanks for the windfarm information.

[Jungle George]

Boy!! I learned a lot today!! Thank you everyone for making me a little smarter!!

[Chefkey]

They should be putting these wind towers up all over the mountaintops everywhere. It would make a huge cost offset for other energy like gas or oil.

[mbs7]

Originally Posted by lialleycat

^^^^
ILP, NPR is doing an informative series of articles on the electric grid that I've been listening to. Maybe they can help? I love NPR!

Power Hungry: Reinventing The U.S. Electric Grid : NPR

Great link. Thanks!

[PITTSTON2SARASOTA]

Originally Posted by I LOVE PA!

That whole concept of 'the grid' ...just beyond my comprehension. I just don't get it...can anyone explain simply....???

Oh..AND YES. JG...they are awesome to look at. I have some near me, and I always enjoy the view.

The grid also allows electricity to be rerouted around any damaged areas. It supposedly, also keeps power plants somewhat isolated;so that if a circuit breaker trips...etc. ...the system and other power plants will not be involved in a "cascade effect".

[The Commish]

Originally Posted by thecoalman

That's the money you the taxpayer pay to subsidize the electric generated by wind as it cannot compete with coal.

Coal is cheap because its price doesn't include its negative externalities.

And I'm wary about wind power because essentially we're turning over vast swaths of public land in many cases to private energy companies. That's not the best land management strategy, in my opinion. For wind power to work, we need to develop some high-altitude floating turbines (wind speeds are much higher at greater altitudes). That would increase its output, reduce its physical footprint, and minimize its impact on public land.

[mathjak107]

the locals around the windmills in waymart are besides themselves with these things... for miles around the noise and whirring is driving them nuts, the strobe effect from the turning blades is awful on the houses in the area... the local farmers are complaining the bugs and insects have vanished and certain needed insects are gone from the change in air flow. crops are being eaten by other insects that used to be eaten by the vanished insects. property values were destroyed for miles around.

the town was promised big electricity discounts and instead the power is sold on the grid and they get next to no break. the windmills are a very expensive source of power alot of times in the fact they require long transmission lines to transmitt this power as usually the first requirement is that they need vast amounts of land and are not close enough to the grids themselves

http://www.greenberkshires.org/wind_...ark_sides.html


yep windmills sound like a wonderful thing