Schuylkill County: The most racist, backwards county in America? (Scranton: appointed, felony)

[The Commish]

Originally Posted by go phillies

What angered me last night was seeing those hispanic activitsts on the news, the lady from Hazleton who led the crusade against Barletta's plan to drive out illegals, complaining about the verdict. I had to wonder if she would have been outraged if these clowns beat a non-hispanic guy to death?

Hispanic activists are *rightly* complaining about unfair treatment of hispanics in criminal law. If the sentence didn't depend as much on the race of the victim, then activists wouldn't have anything to be activists about in this area. Do you disagree with them that a criminal sentence shouldn't depend on the race of the victim? That's what they're protesting-- and that's what a lot of us here are upset about. That you're somehow "angered" about this is just reactionary nonsense. White on white murder has no element of unfairness because of the race of the victim.

Originally Posted by go phillies

What I don't understand is this whole "ethnic intimidation" or "hate crime" BS....why should it carry an extra charge if you assault/kill a minority, but if the same happened to me, there would be no "hate crime" charge. Is my life worth less because I'm a white male?

...

Hate crime laws apply to everyone. I'm not sure if you're saying that (1) they don't (which is a clearly incorrect statement of the law); or (2) that prosecutors are unwilling to bring hate crime charges against minorities. If that's the case, then I think you're assuming quite a bit there. I'm not sure why anyone would say something they don't have knowledge about.

[ScranBarre]

Originally Posted by The Commish

Hate crime laws apply to everyone. I'm not sure if you're saying that (1) they don't (which is a clearly incorrect statement of the law); or (2) that prosecutors are unwilling to bring hate crime charges against minorities. If that's the case, then I think you're assuming quite a bit there. I'm not sure why anyone would say something they don't have knowledge about.

Not to gang up on Go Phillies, but I agree with this point. If three African-American males were to beat Go Phillies in the street while shouting "Take that cracker! Whitey! Black power!", etc., etc. then that, too, would have been a "hate crime" with ethnic intimidation charges. The boys were overheard by a retired Philadelphia police officer who lived near the site of the attack shouting all sorts of racial slurs at the victim as the kicked him to death, and yet the jury for whatever reason didn't find any of the boys' actions to be criminally actionable or morally reprehensible (I have my reasons given the demographics of many people in Schuylkill County, but I digress).

[go phillies]

Originally Posted by ScranBarre

Not to gang up on Go Phillies, but I agree with this point. If three African-American males were to beat Go Phillies in the street while shouting "Take that cracker! Whitey! Black power!", etc., etc. then that, too, would have been a "hate crime" with ethnic intimidation charges. The boys were overheard by a retired Philadelphia police officer who lived near the site of the attack shouting all sorts of racial slurs at the victim as the kicked him to death, and yet the jury for whatever reason didn't find any of the boys' actions to be criminally actionable or morally reprehensible (I have my reasons given the demographics of many people in Schuylkill County, but I digress).

But if another white guy were to beat me to death and was overheard calling me an a##hole or a d**khead while doing it would get a lesser charge? I would have to think than ANY crime where someone beat someone to death could be labeled a "hate crime," they sure aren't beating someone to death out of love. They should either call every one of these crimes a "hate crime" or do away with the term altogether.....I vote for the latter.

[The Commish]

Originally Posted by go phillies

But if another white guy were to beat me to death and was overheard calling me an a##hole or a d**khead while doing it would get a lesser charge? I would have to think than ANY crime where someone beat someone to death could be labeled a "hate crime," they sure aren't beating someone to death out of love. They should either call every one of these crimes a "hate crime" or do away with the term altogether.....I vote for the latter.

The state through its voters feels that crimes committed in whole or in part out of racial animus deserve extra punishment. You can take a look at the history of racial discrimination in our country and take a different view, of course. But your vote is (thankfully) an, excuse the term, "minority" view.*

*I'd be interested in a debate whether increasing punishments in criminal law for crimes committed with racial animus serves any penological goals (retribution, deterrence, etc). But I think that exceeds the scope of this local-based thread.

[Jiggs77]

White people have been hate crime victums, and in some cases, hate crime laws are not even appplied. There are Latin activists, Asian activists, Black activists, illegal-alian activists, all over news. Ever see a White activist?? Hell no. They'd be labeled racist in a second. Just like the people of Schuykill county are being labeled as hillbillys and other dumb labels.

[The Commish]

Originally Posted by Jiggs77

White people have been hate crime victums, and in some cases, hate crime laws are not even appplied. There are Latin activists, Asian activists, Black activists, illegal-alian activists, all over news. Ever see a White activist?? Hell no. They'd be labeled racist in a second. Just like the people of Schuykill county are being labeled as hillbillys and other dumb labels.

I'm not sure this is worth responding to. But I'm procrastinating, so eh why not?

First, I think it's safe to say that white people have indeed been hate crime victims. But I highly suspect your assertion that "hate crime laws are not even appplied [sic]." Where are you digging that statistic up from? Experience? Uh-huh.

Second, what exactly would a "white activist" have anything to be all activist about? Are whites victims of racial discrimination in American politics, education, society, and economy? Overwhelmingly no. And "white" is a little monolithical for these days. There are plenty of Italian-American, Polish-American, and other types of advocacy groups. They have a much different aim than minority groups because equality issues aren't pertinent for them today like they once were. This is coming from one "**** wop" himself, I might add.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by The Commish

Second, what exactly would a "white activist" have anything to be all activist about? Are whites victims of racial discrimination in American politics, education, society, and economy? Overwhelmingly no. And "white" is a little monolithical for these days. There are plenty of Italian-American, Polish-American, and other types of advocacy groups. They have a much different aim than minority groups because equality issues aren't pertinent for them today like they once were. This is coming from one "**** wop" himself, I might add.

I'm going to step outside of my normally liberal mind to point out something that is screwed up about our society. They are building an african american culture center in our city. Can you imagine what would happen if there was a white culture center built? I'm not advocating that there should be one. I'm just pointing out that our society is truly messed up.

[Magritte25]

Originally Posted by GiantRutgersfan

you have no idea what happened. The illegal immigrant was 25 years old and had a 14 year old fiance.

I highly doubt that these kids decided to fight this guy for no reason. Learn the facts.

Doesn't matter that he was with a FIFTEEN YEAR old that was NOT his fiance.

These boys are guilty of murder. At the very least involuntary manslaughter.

[Magritte25]

Originally Posted by greentown

No where in my post did I say that it is OK to kill anyone under any circumstances. In this case, the victim had the choice to walk away, used poor judgement and did not, and unfortunately is now dead. The point is that there was not sufficient EVIDENCE to show that the two boys on trial committed the crime in question. Justice was served.

I have never been able to serve on a jury yet, but I am most definitely proud to be someone who can look at facts before I jump to conclusions based on a few media stories and I certainly hope that there are many others that can do the same.

I can blame basically any murder victim or rape victim for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Or for being a mouthy smartass. Or for being at a dance club.

Is it just ok to blame the victim when he isn't white?

[Magritte25]

Originally Posted by W-B proud

Something tells me if this was the other way around and if it was a couple of Mexicans that kicked to death a white kid then you guys would have a completely different view of this outrageous verdict. This poor guy did nothing that deserved being beat to death...illegal immigrant or not. These kids should serve as much time as any other MURDERER.

Exactly, WB. It's total racist bull****.