Bishop Martino (Honesdale: school, college, to live)

[Slammin' Scrannin']

Originally Posted by go phillies

Wow...a Catholic bishop teaching straight from the Catechism...what an outrage!

This simply isn't true. The idea that Martino was only "following Church doctrine" is wrong. The Bishop took the hardest right-wing line on nearly every issue that came before him, from who Catholics should vote for, to his meddling in who can speak at various college guest lectures, graduations, etc, to his random comments about anything in between. On all these issues, the Bishop had a lot of discretion. The problem, quite simply, was that the man lacked tact. His hardline views polarized the Diocese and further imperiled efforts to improve declining Church membership. My guess is the Vatican had an idea what an unpopular buffoon he would prove, so they sent him to carry out the unpopular decision to close and consolidate the churches. No sense in sullying the reputation of a promising newcomer when they had a fool like Martino to burn.

[returningtonepa???]

Originally Posted by Slammin' Scrannin'

This simply isn't true. The idea that Martino was only "following Church doctrine" is wrong. The Bishop took the hardest right-wing line on nearly every issue that came before him, from who Catholics should vote for, to his meddling in who can speak at various college guest lectures, graduations, etc, to his random comments about anything in between. On all these issues, the Bishop had a lot of discretion. The problem, quite simply, was that the man lacked tact. His hardline views polarized the Diocese and further imperiled efforts to improve declining Church membership. My guess is the Vatican had an idea what an unpopular buffoon he would prove, so they sent him to carry out the unpopular decision to close and consolidate the churches. No sense in sullying the reputation of a promising newcomer when they had a fool like Martino to burn.

his views followed catholic doctrine---he could not get support in an area consisting primarily of cafeteria catholics.i have seen so many professed catholics here living a lifestyle in opposition to catholicism,and christian doctrine

[Mr Yuk]

Originally Posted by Slammin' Scrannin'

This simply isn't true. The idea that Martino was only "following Church doctrine" is wrong. The Bishop took the hardest right-wing line on nearly every issue that came before him, from who Catholics should vote for, to his meddling in who can speak at various college guest lectures, graduations, etc, to his random comments about anything in between. On all these issues, the Bishop had a lot of discretion. The problem, quite simply, was that the man lacked tact. His hardline views polarized the Diocese and further imperiled efforts to improve declining Church membership. My guess is the Vatican had an idea what an unpopular buffoon he would prove, so they sent him to carry out the unpopular decision to close and consolidate the churches. No sense in sullying the reputation of a promising newcomer when they had a fool like Martino to burn.

If they're such "hardline" views, I suggest you pick up a Catechism and see that Martino was merely enforcing Catholic doctrine. Just because other bishops may turn a blind eye to Catholic doctrine and just let the Catholic-in-name-only politicians and colleges continue to promote values that do not agree with Catholicism does not mean anything.

He never said who Catholics should vote for...he just laid out the non-negotiable ISSUES for voting Catholics.

So you think in the name of not polarizing the diocese and boosting church membership, that they should just throw away the Catechism and the Bible and just adopt an "anything goes" philosophy? So then we'll just become a liberal church like the Episcopal or United Church of Christ and not really stand for anything? Personally, I would rather the Catholic Church be smaller and actually stand up for its beliefs, than to just throw away its values in the name of putting butts in the seats.

If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything....

[shoegal111]

Originally Posted by go phillies

If they're such "hardline" views, I suggest you pick up a Catechism and see that Martino was merely enforcing Catholic doctrine. Just because other bishops may turn a blind eye to Catholic doctrine and just let the Catholic-in-name-only politicians and colleges continue to promote values that do not agree with Catholicism does not mean anything.

He never said who Catholics should vote for...he just laid out the non-negotiable ISSUES for voting Catholics.

So you think in the name of not polarizing the diocese and boosting church membership, that they should just throw away the Catechism and the Bible and just adopt an "anything goes" philosophy? So then we'll just become a liberal church like the Episcopal or United Church of Christ and not really stand for anything? Personally, I would rather the Catholic Church be smaller and actually stand up for its beliefs, than to just throw away its values in the name of putting butts in the seats.

If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything....

That's not entirely true. He told you who you could not vote for by storming into support meetings for candidates he did not want people to vote for and giving a fire and brimstone speech.

[Mr Yuk]

Originally Posted by shoegal111

That's not entirely true. He told you who you could not vote for by storming into support meetings for candidates he did not want people to vote for and giving a fire and brimstone speech.

That meeting had nothing to do with any particular candidate...only issues. And abortion is a non-negotiable issue for Catholics.

[shoegal111]

Originally Posted by go phillies

That meeting had nothing to do with any particular candidate...only issues. And abortion is a non-negotiable issue for Catholics.

What meeting are you referrring to as there were several incidents where this occured.

[Magritte25]

This irritates me beyond belief. You are Catholic? FINE. Follow the catechism, follow the Catholic doctrine. Absolutely a-ok.

HOWEVER, an institution of higher education would be doing a *huge* disservice to not allow different POVs to be heard. Furthermore, *some* Catholics believe that their beliefs do not trump the beliefs of others. That doesn't make the Catholics in name only or Cafeteria Catholics. It simply means that they feel that they are responsible for their OWN acts, getting right with THEIR God. They don't feel the need to dictate their morals to everyone else.

I really don't get why this is *such* a hard concept to understand.

[Slammin' Scrannin']

Originally Posted by go phillies

...Martino was merely enforcing Catholic doctrine...

You can keep repeating that until you're blue in the face, but the fact is that Martino's most controversial comments were in areas where he had considerable discretion.

• It's not "Catholic doctrine" that abortion is the "only issue" Catholics could vote on. The U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops--which is the official leadership body of the Church in this country-- expressly contradicts that view.
  
• It's not "Catholic doctrine" that colleges like Misericordia that feature gay speakers or have a "Diversity Institute" should have their Catholic identity revoked.
  
• It's not "Catholic doctrine" to comment almost exclusively on pro-life Senator Casey's apparent "evilness" in failing to confront abortion in several area.

It's clear that Martino is taking a view within the normal bounds of interpretation-- and he is certainly allowed that as a Bishop-- but it's totally wrong to suggest his view is some official church view. On all issues it's merely one interpretation you agree with-- an extremely right-wing version.

[Mr Yuk]

Originally Posted by Magritte25

This irritates me beyond belief. You are Catholic? FINE. Follow the catechism, follow the Catholic doctrine. Absolutely a-ok.

HOWEVER, an institution of higher education would be doing a *huge* disservice to not allow different POVs to be heard. Furthermore, *some* Catholics believe that their beliefs do not trump the beliefs of others. That doesn't make the Catholics in name only or Cafeteria Catholics. It simply means that they feel that they are responsible for their OWN acts, getting right with THEIR God. They don't feel the need to dictate their morals to everyone else.

I really don't get why this is *such* a hard concept to understand.

That's fine if people want to view God on their own terms, but then they are not Catholic. Also, if a college wants to identify itself as Catholic, then it should follow Catholic teaching....otherwise, its not Catholic.

I really don't get why this is *SUCH* a hard concept to understand?

[Mr Yuk]

Originally Posted by shoegal111

What meeting are you referrring to as there were several incidents where this occured.

I assume you are referring to the meeting in Honesdale. And I do not recall the bishop "storming" into any meetings that promoted a particular candidate.