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We're not ignorant or shallow. We're just going by the facts. Illegal aliens are breaking our laws. PERIOD. That's the bottom line here. Why would you keep defending them? You're right by staying the government should of done something about it years ago so it wouldn't get to this point. Now it's blown up to huge preportions that it must be stopped. The American people must stand up and speak out on this issue before illegal aliens ruin the precious thread of American life. And the INS should be doing more when visas do expire. The fact that there are costs involved to get rid of illegals is fine. They are allready a huge drain on our economy, so to spend more money to get rid of them is fine.
These are facts!!! Maybe you should do some more research. Better yet, just go to your local Wal-mart and stand by the registers for a while and you will see all the foreigners (leagal & illegal) paying with the access card. Open your damn eyes and see what is going on all around you. Unless of course, you are one of them. YES, YES, YESthe illegals are collecting welfare. I told you my mom worked there for over 20 years and they brought them in by the bus loads, which of course I could never understand either. And yes, I DO WORK! why do you think this subject pisses me off so much. My tax money is going for them. Get a grip and open your eyes!
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Originally Posted by DaSkorpion
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Are these facts or fiction? - IMO I'd say fiction
I have seen many people born and raised in the US who shun the idea of high school or college now mind you foreigners whether legal or illegal tend to achieve something with their lives and with most of them going to college and being a better person is a major goal. How many Americans graduate high school and continue to college each year...now how many legal foreigners come here just to go to college and yet have to pay 5x what an American will pay for college tuition...do the math.
I have hardly heard about illegals collecting welfare or disability - you are not entitled to those privileges as an illegal even if your mom or dad was born in the US.
Also I know the government gives tax breaks to foreign owned businesses thats why you see a lot of chinese restaurants, gas stations, mom & pops shops and other foreign owned businesses all over. Any American can open a business and get those perks as well and more if they know what they are doing - it just takes time, patience and some serious dedication.
Now talking about the legal ones draining the system - that I do not think so look around you how many legals do you know personally who are draining the system. Draining the system in what way can you elaborate - yes legals work hard to achieve what they have. How many times have you seen a legal you work with that is if you do --- taken a vacation to some exotic location if not for a family issue. You talked about a legal/foreigner who married someone and recieved some money to start a business and also received a down payment for her house...what was her exact situation/circumstance and since you stated it was someone(American) who married the foreigner, whatever the foreigner got any other American could get..so what is your problem?
Legal foriegners do not come to the US and get handed a silver platter with everything on it - so now tell me how many legals or illegals have you seen on section 8 or collecting welfare? Yes illegals are a drain on the system because rounding them up, deporting them back etc involves a lot of money which we all pay for....it ain't free so start blaming the pioneers who encouraged this illegal influx and made money out of it.
You seem to have a thing against both legals and illegals .... please get your facts straight.
Legals or illegals are not the cause of your problems - these problems existed from way back...some lazy illegals just choose to take it to the next level because if an American can do it and get away with it why can't they. Now the question is what is the INS doing when visas for most foreigners expire?
This is my last post on this thread just cant seem to understand how ignorant and shallow some people can get...it started off on illegals and now legals are part of it...what's going to be next...the KKK, African Americans...please c'mon..!!!
My question for you miamiman is how would you know that Scranton does not have a problem if you live in Arizona? You do not see what goes on in this area on a daily basis so you can only speak of your area. The reason that the end up flocking to PA is because we do not have a residency on our welfare system. They can just come in and get everything. Great state! But when our own people need a little help to get back on thier feet, they are denied. Most other states have a residency anywhere from 3 months to a year. I really resent your comment about the "non skilled" workers. They are the backbone of our country! Not all people have the opportunity to attend college nor do some want to. But God forbid the foreigners can get thier college paid for by our gov. and the hell with our people. That includes the legals! Personally, I like working my 8 hour days and not having to worry about being on call, working weekends, or being away weeks at a time on business trips. I can still have a life. And yes, I did go to college so do not put down the working people! I say send these people back where they came from!!! I work with a woman, who after being here 20 years, finally got her citizenship a few months ago, and still can not read or write in English. I often wonder how she is raising 4 children. Of course she was one who received all that cash to start a business when she came into the country. Of course she was here legally but when is our own people ever given all that money to better themselves? I know I am getting off the subject of "illegals" but even the legal ones drain the system. I last I heard, through someone that married a foreigner, they received $50,000 to start a business, $15,000 towards a downpayment on a house, $3,000 towards a car, and the first 2 years of college paid for. This is why you see so many mini marts now owned by foreigners. It just makes me sick. This woman that I am speaking of made so much money with the business years ago that she buys her cars and houses out right. Must be nice to be a foreigner. I think that is what I wil come back as in my next life. LOL. Sorry to get so far off the subject but my point is that you do not live here and see this all the time.
I am familiar with the Scranton area, as I pratically spent all of my childhood summers there. I also had the misfortune of residing a couple of weeks in the area, at which I was able to see that very little has changed, including racial demographics and attitudes of the locals. Illegal immigrants are "flocking" in much greater numbers to other states in the country besides Pennsylvania. I don't know why you and others believe that illegal immigrants are receiving social services from the government. They simply aren't. Enrolling their children in school is not a criminal act, working a job that is made available to them is not a criminal act. In response to your story about the immigrant mother who cannot speak English, there are many Americans who can barely speak English. I don't see how her language choice puts a wrench in your existence. English is NOT the official language of the United States, and as more Hispanics come into this country (legal and illegal) Spanish is going to become a dominant language. You have the choice to either accept that or fume and remain stubborn wondering why you get passed up for jobs because you can't speak Spanish.
This gets to the subject of unskilled workers. You say that unskilled workers sometimes do not have the resources or the desire to get training in other areas or attend school. Lack of desire is nobody's fault but their own. This is a developed country. If you want a job that is more secure, you have to get an advanced education. I don't argue at all that this country survives off of the backs of unskilled workers. There will always be people who are there to fill those positions, as is evidenced by the influx of immigrants in this country. All I am saying is that if you are an American and your company decides to outsource or replace you with someone they can pay less, deal with it and move on. There is no need to bitter as this is the goal of most companies in this country. If you had training in other areas, you would be able to transition into another field and go on with your life.
"English is NOT the official language of the United States, and as more Hispanics come into this country (legal and illegal) Spanish is going to become a dominant language. You have the choice to either accept that or fume and remain stubborn wondering why you get passed up for jobs because you can't speak Spanish."
Right, as earlier immigration waves forced everyone to learn Italian, Polish, Gaelic, ad infinitum? Wrong! You might WANT to make this country into a giant Latin America but that doesn't mean it's going to happen. And why would you even want that? Aren't the illegal and legal immigrants fleeing corruption, persecution, lack of free education and seeking opportunities for all? That's what the argument has been.
But now you're saying that the rest of us have to change our language, education and society to accommodate the illegal immigrants. Which is it?
The affairs of this country have been, are, and will be conducted in English because no matter how many poor people run across the Southern Border, the powers-that-be are English speaking, regardless of their ethnicity or race. And foreign-born people are not eligible to become president of the U.S. Our legal system is based on common law from England, and that's not going to change, either.
I don't patronize businesses where English isn't spoken and it isn't tough to do; nor will it be in the future because upwardly mobile immigrants who want to succeed learn English. Those who don't limit their possibilities and isolate themselves. We have a NATIONAL problem of jobs being outsourced to other countries with which even Mexican labor can't compete. So, instead of being so cavalier about people losing their jobs, you might want to consider the fact that as we continue to import poverty, the low-skill jobs are going to evaporate for EVERYONE and people who are English literate will have a far easier time adjusting and retraining than Spanish-speaking illegal immigrants.
The affairs of this country have been, are, and will be conducted in English because no matter how many poor people run across the Southern Border, the powers-that-be are English speaking, regardless of their ethnicity or race. And foreign-born people are not eligible to become president of the U.S. Our legal system is based on common law from England, and that's not going to change, either.
I don't patronize businesses where English isn't spoken and it isn't tough to do; nor will it be in the future because upwardly mobile immigrants who want to succeed learn English. Those who don't limit their possibilities and isolate themselves. We have a NATIONAL problem of jobs being outsourced to other countries with which even Mexican labor can't compete. So, instead of being so cavalier about people losing their jobs, you might want to consider the fact that as we continue to import poverty, the low-skill jobs are going to evaporate for EVERYONE and people who are English literate will have a far easier time adjusting and retraining than Spanish-speaking illegal immigrants.
I agree with you, English is our language and to get ahead in this country you must learn it. Generations of immigrants have managed to learn our language and have done quite well here. This trend will continue for the immigrants who learn English. I do not believe that people who come to our country illegally should expect those of us who are here legally to learn their language.
If these companies didn't put things in Spanish to cater to these people, maybe they would actually be forced to learn English. Like when you call about your credit card bill, it's says 1 for English, 2 for Spanish. There should not be any 2. What about 3,4 and 5 for German, French and Polish. If you're going to put one, you might as well put all. There is no way I'm going to learn Spanish just to be able to communicate with these people. They want to be here so bad, let them learn English. English still is and always will be the NO.1 language in this country. If I moved to a foreign land, I would make every effort to learn that country's language. Sunnydee and teatime make excellent points in their posts. And these companies that hire illegal aliens, when they could be hiring legal Americans, should be levied with heavy fines. They are breaking the law by hiring criminals.
Last edited by NYRangers 2008; 08-02-2007 at 05:40 AM..
Reason: typo
Conorsdad, everything you said I agree with. We do have a lot of white trash in this area. That being said, we don't need more people here breaking the law. I have nothing against a good hard working Hispanic family moving here. But do it legally with documentation papers and learn to speak English and we will have no problems.
Right, as earlier immigration waves forced everyone to learn Italian, Polish, Gaelic, ad infinitum? Wrong! You might WANT to make this country into a giant Latin America but that doesn't mean it's going to happen. And why would you even want that? Aren't the illegal and legal immigrants fleeing corruption, persecution, lack of free education and seeking opportunities for all? That's what the argument has been.
The current wave of immigration is a fact of American history. I don't agree or disagree with it. I'm just saying that it would be a lot easier if you learned to adjust to the demographic and linguistic shift that are, and will contine to, take place over the next 20 years. Many Americans are finding that they are being looked over for jobs because they cannot speak English. Italian, Irish, and Eastern Europeans did not come over to the United States in nearly the numbers that Latin Americans have been. The largest minority group in this country is Latin Americans. Naturally, Spanish would be a very prominent language here. Much of the problem I see here is that you think the United States will turn into a Third World country just because of the presence of Latin Americans. That just simply can not and will not happen.
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But now you're saying that the rest of us have to change our language, education and society to accommodate the illegal immigrants. Which is it?
No. I suggest you learn Spanish so you don't end up unemployed. You should learn Spanish because it's becoming a dominant language in this country, from the influence of LEGAL immigrants as well as illegal immigrants.
Much of the problem I see here is that you think the United States will turn into a Third World country just because of the presence of Latin Americans. That just simply can not and will not happen.
It is already happening in sections of the country. The Maryland neighborhood I moved into 14 years ago and that I am literally FLEEING from now has done a 180 degree turn for the worse. It used to quiet, pretty and peaceful. Now there is trash everywhere. The police come through regularly to deal with the gang violence. I can't sleep past 5:30 am because of the massive amounts of muffler-less cars and trucks exiting my development for their unskilled worker jobs. You can keep turning a blind eye to it, but it just creeps along...and it's heading for PA.
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Originally Posted by miamiman
No. I suggest you learn Spanish so you don't end up unemployed. You should learn Spanish because it's becoming a dominant language in this country, from the influence of LEGAL immigrants as well as illegal immigrants.
I work in the legal field and feel confident that I will certainly not become unemployed because I don't speak and write Spanish. What WILL happen, however, is that people will continue to get sick of not being able to conduct business in English, and those customers will continue to seek out English-speaking businesses to deal with, leaving the bodegas for the illegals...
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Illegals
