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This is the one snippet I would just like to touch upon because I don't agree that "newness" necessarily has to mean "poorly-planned."
True. But one thing I was touching on with the areas I listed was two things: age and dirt.
That said, I agree about planning and "newness". I don't know how many times I've been somewhere and wonder, "My God, did anyone ever think how this space would be utilized when it was being planned?" And then think if there are voices on such planning boards that simply get out-voted during the jockeying phases.
BTW, this is an interesting topic to me that doesn't merely touch this area. Scholars have written about places in other parts of the world where those in charge planned utopian places but once occupied, found out that much of it was poorly thought-out. The ones who suffered weren't the planners/those in charge but the ones who had to live in these places.
True. But one thing I was touching on with the areas I listed was two things: age and dirt.
That said, I agree about planning and "newness". I don't know how many times I've been somewhere and wonder, "My God, did anyone ever think how this space would be utilized when it was being planned?" And then think if there are voices on such planning boards that simply get out-voted during the jockeying phases.
BTW, this is an interesting topic to me that doesn't merely touch this area. Scholars have written about places in other parts of the world where those in charge planned utopian places but once occupied, found out that much of it was poorly thought-out. The ones who suffered weren't the planners/those in charge but the ones who had to live in these places.
Sadly, I'm sure at one point or another people thought Tysons Corner was "the wave of the future." So sad to see that was so short-lived and must now be completely overhauled.
Actually, Brambleton (particularly the movie theater) has become a magnet for teens, including those from outside of Brambleton. We even had a big fight (http://www.leesburg2day.com/articles/2010/05/14/news/public_safety/881fight051210.txt - broken link) last spring. There's also a lot of late-night activity in Legacy Park, which faces the Town Center (and which technically closes at dusk). Security has been increased in response.
LOL! I don't think that really detracts from my point. If I lived there as a teen, I think I'd want to head somewhere else every now and then because it does feel a bit insular. Of course, if I didn't live there, the Town Center and Legacy Park area might be a great place to visit for a rumble until security cracked down. Either way, I wouldn't hang out where I lived all the time, under the watchful eye of my fellow Brambletonians, or treat my neighborhood as a utopia just because it had sidewalks and houses with porches.
Don't kids always want to see the other side of tracks at some point? Growing up in the suburbs, I always envied city kids who had the whole city at their disposal!
I think Brambleton is very attractive, but I suspect that, if I were a teenager living there with access to a car, or perhaps even a bit older, I'd often want to round up a bunch of friends and drive somewhere else to escape the Brambletonian-ness of it all.
Yeah, when someone grows up in an area, sooner or later the novelty wears off so driving elsewhere becomes an adventure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdmurphy
Actually, Brambleton (particularly the movie theater) has become a magnet for teens, including those from outside of Brambleton. We even had a big fight (http://www.leesburg2day.com/articles/2010/05/14/news/public_safety/881fight051210.txt - broken link) last spring. There's also a lot of late-night activity in Legacy Park, which faces the Town Center (and which technically closes at dusk). Security has been increased in response.
Wow, a real fist-fight? Probably just kids being territorial. Dulles Town Center was like that when it first opened.
Caladium, going by your logic should we consider Seven Corners to be "walkable" with its incessant gridlock, huge parking lots, and tons of ingresses/egresses from those parking lots? There are tons of businesses in that general area, but I would not consider it to be a very pleasant place to be walking/biking around. I just drove through there today en route to a doctor's appointment after work, and I pitied the people I saw playing "Frog-ger" as they scurried across the roads. Caladium, should we also consider Tysons Corner to be "walkable", despite its mess of congestion, spread out buildings that aren't mixed-use, huge surface parking lots that are normally half-empty, etc.?
Since you said you want to go by my logic, let's do so. Here's what I said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caladium
The hallmarks of a walkable neighborhood are sidewalks, walking trails, and things like tunnels under major roads as well as crossing signals in case you don't want to take the tunnels. Also, stores, churches, community buildings within an easy walk. (IMO, up to a mile is a reasonable distance to walk.)
IMO, if you always see lots of people out walking (and especially if you see them walking to the store) that's one way you know you live in a walkable neighborhood.
So.... let's consider Seven Corners and Tysons. Do these areas have 1) sidewalks; 2) walking trails; 3) tunnels under major roads as well as crossing signals; 4) stores, churches, community buildings within an easy walk; 5) you always see lots of people out walking to the store? and 6) I'll even include another poster's idea that the walk should be pleasant, since (IMO) the areas you walk in Reston, Herndon, and Sterling are pleasant. If they have all these criteria then they'd be walkable too.
BTW, here are people walking to the store in my neighborhood. I think this qualifies as an attractive and pleasant walk:
Since you said you want to go by my logic, let's do so. Here's what I said:
So.... let's consider Seven Corners and Tysons. Do these areas have 1) sidewalks; 2) walking trails; 3) tunnels under major roads as well as crossing signals; 4) stores, churches, community buildings within an easy walk; 5) you always see lots of people out walking to the store? and 6) I'll even include another poster's idea that the walk should be pleasant, since (IMO) the areas you walk in Reston, Herndon, and Sterling are pleasant. If they have all these criteria then they'd be walkable too.
BTW, here are people walking to the store in my neighborhood. I think this qualifies as an attractive and pleasant walk:
That looks like a nice neighborhood Caladium. Thank you for sharing.
RR...I mean this in the best possible way but I think you need to define what exactly YOU define as an ideal community. That might eliminate some of the back and forth debating when people make suggestions on this forum.
The only reason I am saying this is because sometimes I get confused with what you are looking for based on various posts. I live right in the heart of north Arlington which as of late you seem to really enjoy. But after looking at past posts I am not sure. It is walkable to a certain extent, but I don't know many of my people that actually walk down Wilson Blvd to Harris Teeter or Whole Foods. A lot of people in my condo building and in north Arlington in general don't really live close to where we work...in fact you will come close to finding more people that work in Virginia than in DC. There isn't really any historic character here. There aren't really any mom and pop stores like in Winchester. With the exception of a few isolated places here and there you are far more likely to find regional or national chains. The bar crowds here isn't really be any different than the bar crowds in Reston. There are a lot of people still relying on mom and dad to pay rent and/or other bills. Hell, I am 28 and still know one or two people that get a check every month. Is it just the atmosphere and walkability portion that you like? Or something else? Sorry for the endless questions, I just really want to help you find a good place to live. I absolutely love living in Arlington but I will be the first to admit it isn't for everyone.
Last edited by NOVAmtneer82; 09-20-2010 at 05:43 PM..
That looks like a nice neighborhood Caladium. Thank you for sharing.
RR...I mean this in the best possible way but I think you need to define what exactly YOU define as an ideal community. That might eliminate some of the back and forth debating when people make suggestions on this forum.
The only reason I am saying this is because sometimes I get confused with what you are looking for based on various posts. I live right in the heart of north Arlington which as of late you seem to really enjoy. But after looking at past posts I am not sure. It is walkable to a certain extent, but I don't know many of my people that actually walk down Wilson Blvd to Harris Teeter or Whole Foods. There is a reason you can NEVER find parking spots at either one of those stores. A lot of us don't live close to where we work. in fact many of us drive out to Tysons Corner and beyond. There isn't really any historic character here. There aren't really any mom and pop stores like in Winchester. There are far more regional chains than independently owned businesses. The bar crowd here won't really be any different than the bar crowds in Reston. There are a lot of people still relying on mom and dad to pay rent and/or other bills. Hell, I am 28 and still know one or two people that get a check every month. Is it just the atmosphere and walkability portion that you like? Or something else? Sorry for the endless questions, I just really want to help you find a good place to live.
I've basically narrowed myself down to Westover (more specifically Westover Apartments, thanks to the great help of some people on a very popular Arlington-oriented blog) because it incorporates all I want in a community. That small strip of businesses along Washington Boulevard near North Patrick Henry Drive has a lot of things I'd really enjoy getting some prime use out of---barber shop, market, restaurants, ice cream parlor, etc. It's a long walk (yet doable) to the East Falls Church or Ballston Metro stations, as well as to the Harris Teeter in the Yorktown area and the other shops along Lee Highway. There is convenient access to the Custis and W&OD Trails. I-66 is right there, and given my usual commuting time of 5:30 AM (westbound) and 2:30 PM (eastbound) traffic shouldn't be unbearable. Eventually I will be able to take Metro directly from East Falls Church to my office in Tysons.
It is entirely possible to walk to do your grocery shopping if you invest in one of those push-cart thingies. "Historic character" is in the eye of the beholder. I've fallen in love with Westover's architecture and the housing stock of the surrounding residential neighborhoods. The apartment complex I'm considering has reasonable rents, and the units are two stories, believe it or not, which is very unique in this area. I know I was all "gung-ho" about East Falls Church the other day, but that was until I realize that the only apartments nearby were very expensive, and the homes nearby generally didn't have basements conducive to renting out as apartments. Places like Westover, Yorktown, Williamsburg, or Lee Heights would all suit my needs, as would Waverly Hills or Cherrydale. These are prime example of how you can have a suburban lifestyle in high density near to transit and businesses. The only "downer" is that there don't appear to be any churches I'd be interested in within the immediate area.
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I tend to agree with SouthJersey Styx that an overall walkable area is not necessarily that one can walk to a strip mall. I don't think it has to be urban, though. I can think of numerous small towns that are walkable - towns such as Berkeley Spring, WV, for example, is a walkable small town. St. Michael's, Maryland is a walkable small town as well as other small towns on the Eastern Shore. In the past it seems that small towns often formed around a rail stop.
There are suburbs in many areas that are walkable, too.I 'm thinking of some small suburban towns along the Philadelphia Main Line that aren't urban but that are walkable such as Narberth, PA. Other Philadelphia suburban towns that are walkable include Media and Doylestown.
I think most of us agree that NoVa (and suburban Maryland for that matter) are sorely lacking in walkable towns. Although, there are some walkable towns here and there in NoVA. We all know Alexandria is one as well as Arlington and Falls Church. Vienna and Herndon have walkable downtowns as well. Old Town Manassas has a nice, walkable city center. Out in Loudoun, Middleburg has a walkable downtown as does Leesburg and Purcellville, and I'm sure there are others. But overall, this area is car centric sprawl. I think builders just put up houses helter skelter with no regard to any kind of city or town center. And it really is a shame. And while I would rather be able to walk to a strip mall from my neighborhood than nothing but other residences, I don't believe that makes it a walkable town/city/suburb.
I am passionate about this subject as well. I grew up in a typical suburb where I could not walk anywhere, and I absolutely hated it. When we were town hunting and chose Vienna, I ruled out any homes that were not within walking distance of Maple Avenue and nearby amenities. It took quite awhile, but we found the perfect house that is walking distance to parks, grocery stores, the bike path, the library, the community center, and other amenities.
Someone asked how often those of us who say we live in walkable towns actually walk. Thinking back over the past week, I have walked three times to preschool to pick up my son, four times to the park with a playground, once to the community center for a class for my son, once to Whole Foods to pick up a few things, once to Magruder's to pick up a few things, once to the library, and a couple of times to my kids' friends' homes (about 1/4 mile away) for playdates. I will admit that I am a fair-weather walker. When the weather gets cold, I walk way, way less.
I've basically narrowed myself down to Westover (more specifically Westover Apartments, thanks to the great help of some people on a very popular Arlington-oriented blog) because it incorporates all I want in a community. That small strip of businesses along Washington Boulevard near North Patrick Henry Drive has a lot of things I'd really enjoy getting some prime use out of---barber shop, market, restaurants, ice cream parlor, etc. It's a long walk (yet doable) to the East Falls Church or Ballston Metro stations, as well as to the Harris Teeter in the Yorktown area and the other shops along Lee Highway. There is convenient access to the Custis and W&OD Trails. I-66 is right there, and given my usual commuting time of 5:30 AM (westbound) and 2:30 PM (eastbound) traffic shouldn't be unbearable. Eventually I will be able to take Metro directly from East Falls Church to my office in Tysons.
It is entirely possible to walk to do your grocery shopping if you invest in one of those push-cart thingies. "Historic character" is in the eye of the beholder. I've fallen in love with Westover's architecture and the housing stock of the surrounding residential neighborhoods. The apartment complex I'm considering has reasonable rents, and the units are two stories, believe it or not, which is very unique in this area. I know I was all "gung-ho" about East Falls Church the other day, but that was until I realize that the only apartments nearby were very expensive, and the homes nearby generally didn't have basements conducive to renting out as apartments. Places like Westover, Yorktown, Williamsburg, or Lee Heights would all suit my needs, as would Waverly Hills or Cherrydale. These are prime example of how you can have a suburban lifestyle in high density near to transit and businesses. The only "downer" is that there don't appear to be any churches I'd be interested in within the immediate area.
Ok I can see that then. I think Westover is a happy medium. You MUST go to the Lost Dog and the Beer Garden. I will admit one thing that I left out about convenience..the ART bus system is quite nice and surprisingly reliable.
It is entirely possible to walk to do your grocery shopping if you invest in one of those push-cart thingies.
For a single person or couple who eats out a lot, sure. We had one of those thingies when we lived in Dupont Circle.
For a family with several children, not so much. Unless you like to play European and shop every day....
I have three teenage sons and the milk runs alone (12 gallons a week) would destroy the push-cart thingie pretty fast.
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