Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Virginia > Northern Virginia
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 09-01-2010, 11:27 AM
 
648 posts, read 1,329,768 times
Reputation: 219

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlingtonian View Post
Well, we want a dog that will bark when there's an unfamiliar person or noise but that also would actually bite an intruder--and hopefully be intimidating enough to repel any would-be intruders in the first place. Yet not be SO intimidating that we'll be "the people with the mean dog."

At our old house, we had a mentally ill guy come into our partially enclosed backyard during the day. So we want a dog that can intimidate (e.g., not a Lab) and is not afraid to bite if appropriate, but that will not make the neighbors think we're running a dope ring out of our house (e.g., not a pit bull, etc.).

I'm planning on obedience training and some structured exercise, but I wasn't planning on enrolling the dog in personal-defense training.

I'd be careful what you wish for.

Cali is right, you can't guarantee any dog will bite unless it's specifically trained for that purpose. Also as far as barking, it's in the nature of most dogs to alert their family of strangers and noises.

I'm also not sure you want a dog to bite; that is a huge lawsuit waiting to happen. I'm not sure what the laws are there (yet), but in some states if an intruder breaks into your house and your dog bites them, the intruder can sue you. Stupidest law on earth, but it's applicable to a lot of places.

If that's not the law in VA, let me know!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-01-2010, 01:28 PM
 
Location: New-Dentist Colony
5,759 posts, read 10,686,052 times
Reputation: 3952
OK, I think you both (CaliTerp and Katyusha) may have me convinced! Or at least in a state of reconsideration. Thanks.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-01-2010, 02:46 PM
 
Location: Northern Virginia
1,418 posts, read 3,446,188 times
Reputation: 436
typically a barking German Shepherd is enough to keep pretty much anyone away so what you want to look for is a dog with strong loyalty and protective instinct. Growing up in a house with shepherds I can tell you we never got any trick or treaters They have never bit anyone, but we did have a dog corner the mailman in our front entry.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-01-2010, 03:24 PM
 
Location: Virginia-Shenandoah Valley
7,670 posts, read 14,182,874 times
Reputation: 7464
A fear biting dog is what you'll likely wind up with without proper training. And proper training is hard to find as many people that call themselves dog trainers have no business in the business. Also you need to keep in mind that many insurance companies frown on breeds such as German Shepherds. Police K9 handlers are finding their policies being cancelled across the country once they find out what the handlders have at home. Could easily happen with a bite trained German Shepherd. I've trained bite dogs for a PD for many years and it's not as easy as many private trainers like you to believe. Biting a protective sleeve they wear looks impressive but does not mean a dog will bite an unprotected arm. Biting a bite sleeve is a game and biting flesh is much different.
Getting a rescue is always a good idea and win/win for everyone.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-01-2010, 03:36 PM
 
102 posts, read 538,824 times
Reputation: 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliTerp07 View Post
Just food for thought. Wanting a dog who is willing to bite is a huge liability if not specifically trained.
Yeah, let me second and third the idea that you do NOT want a dog trained to bite. I understand your desire, given your unfortunate history with the guy at your house, but you are asking for a lawsuit if anything wrong ever happened.

Anyway, I second the recommendation about VGSR. We currently have a male GSD from them, adopted 2 years ago, and we LOVE him. They do a thorough reference check of families wanting to adopt from them, and a site visit, and they work hard to find a good match for all of their rescues. This is a good thing for the dog and family-to-be!

Also, FWIW our first GSD was a beautiful girl we got from a breeder -- did all of the background checks and certifications and all that -- and she still ended up having bad dysplasia. So there really are no guarantees!

Feel free to PM me if you'd like more info. Good luck!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-02-2010, 08:15 AM
 
Location: New-Dentist Colony
5,759 posts, read 10,686,052 times
Reputation: 3952
Ok, you've all given me a lot to think about. So no biting! But hopefully at least some baring of teeth and a good show of sound and fury when called for.

I have mixed views on rescue organizations, to be honest. One one hand, I don't like for animals to die needlessly, and I LOVE dogs. So I'm all for adoption and would be inclined for us to adopt our dog. And I get it that they want to make sure people are not going to neglect or abuse the animal. That's a good thing, and I would absolutely do the same thing in their shoes.

On the other hand, there are reportedly a FEW crazy hippie cat lady types at these places, and we don't want some frustrated schoolmarm playing God with us. I'm sure we've all read horror stories about rescue groups that turn people down for stupid, picayune reasons--e.g., you're going to leave the dog in your huge backyard all day, OR you're not going to allow your dog outside during the day. (For the record, we plan on getting a doggie door so the dog can choose.) Check out this article and the comments that follow if you really want to delve into the controversy. http://www.salon.com/life/feature/2007/10/19/ellen_dogs

AlexVA, thanks for the offer of more info; I may take you up on that.

Last edited by Carlingtonian; 09-02-2010 at 08:23 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-02-2010, 09:12 AM
 
Location: Northern Virginia
4,489 posts, read 10,914,386 times
Reputation: 3698
Actually, leaving your dog outside all day IS a very valid reason not to adopt a dog to someone. I do home visits for a local rescue, and if someone told me that was their plan, I'd tell them it's not a good one. I wouldn't deny their application, because I want the dog to work in their home as much as they do, but I'd work with them to figure out an alternative arrangement that would work better. For the record, I don't know of any good breeders who would be cool with you leaving your dog outside all day either. There are a few reasons for it.

1) The dog is in a new environment. It's nervous, it doesn't know you, it's first instinct is often going to be to run away and either explore or hide. We have several adopters every year call us crying within a few days after getting their dog that it escaped. Our rescue spends thousands of dollars tracking lost animals to return them to adopters.
2) Dogs are often stolen out of yards. Especially pure bred looking dogs. Also, recently in DC there was a case of jack *****es throwing poisoned meat and poisoned mushrooms into people's backyards. I've heard of at least 3 dogs (though there were probably more) who died from this. It's not a risk I'd want to take.
3) Again with the danger thing--is the dog going to chew through your fence from separation anxiety? Dig into your neighbor's yard and eat their cats? Climb the fence chasing a squirrel and escape into traffic? (that's my dog's latest trick...) For at least the first year that you have a new animal (preferably it's whole life, in my opinion), the dog should never be outside alone. Too many potential problems.
4) Weather! When it's 105*, how is your dog going to cool off? What about when it's 10*?

We always suggest crate training new dogs. It helps with house training, keeps the animal safe from it's own destructive habits while you're at work, and gives the dog a safe, secure place to go. If you're getting an older dog, you might not need the crate, but you will need to evaluate that on a case by case basis.

I've known more than one person with a dog door who has found raccoons and a skunk in their dining room eating out of the pet food dish. Plus, then the dog can get out into the yard where all the above problems can happen. It's not something I'd ever suggest.

If you want to rescue and don't want to deal with any kind of policies, check out shelters. You won't get as much feedback on a specific dog, but they also are more lenient about who they adopt to. PG County and King George County are always desperate to adopt out animals. Alexandria/Arlington have policies similar to a rescue.

If you do go through a rescue, I would be 100% up front with them. Tell them that you're looking for a shepherd, and that you want to make it work but you aren't sure of the details. How can you make your home/lifestyle/situation a good match for one? Don't go into it with a "I am going to care for my dog xyz way, so deal with it." We adopted out over 1000 dogs last year alone. We know what we're doing, and have been doing it a long time--everything we say, every suggestion we give is to make it easier and more successful for you AND the dog.

Side note, absolutely don't mention that you're looking for a "scary" dog to ward off people, or something to attack intruders. That's a red flag in rescue, and generally points to the type of person we're going to be leery of. What I would say is that you have a love of shepherds (make sure you've done the research and know their issues and energy requirements), and that you are looking for a family pet first and foremost, one that will help make your wife feel more secure when you're away.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-02-2010, 02:33 PM
 
Location: New-Dentist Colony
5,759 posts, read 10,686,052 times
Reputation: 3952
I appreciate the thoughts; as I said, we'd be getting a dog door, so the dog could come/go inside or outside as he pleases.

I'm surprised to hear that leaving a dog in a backyard during all but very hot or very cold days would be considered a bad thing; they love to run, smell the smells, hear/smell passing dogs and other animals. I feel bad for the dogs that are stuck indoors all day. The story you recount in DC is awful--but I would be surprised to hear about that happening in a nicer neighborhood in NOVA, though nothing's impossible.

Intruder deterrence is only part of the reason we want a Shepherd; we love dogs and of course want a dog for all the usual pet reasons. But yeah, it's a benefit if the dog can deter would-be bad guys. But I will take your advice and not mention it--if we go to a rescue place.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-02-2010, 02:59 PM
 
Location: Northern Virginia
4,489 posts, read 10,914,386 times
Reputation: 3698
I think you'll be surprised. Generally dogs sleep about 14+ hours a day. 6-8 of them will be at night with you, but the other 6-8 will be while you're at work. There's very little running around at my house during the day. I work from home on some Fridays, and my border collie mix just snoozes at my feet most of the day (until the mail man comes, and then she goes crazy for a while )

It is a VERY rare dog that will self exercise itself in the backyard. If you want your dog to run, you'll need to exercise it yourself. You can teach fetch or frisbee, take it to the dog park, go on a run with it, take it swimming, etc. But letting it out the door in the morning into the yard is only going to result in a quick pee and the request to come back in, likely. And your dog can hear the other dogs outside just fine from in the house. From there, there's no chance of hopping the fence to go visit them, no chance of your neighbors calling the cops because he's non stop at 10 pm, etc. Keeping a dog inside isn't something sad at all. So long as the owner gives it enough exercise before/after work, most dogs are asleep all day.

The safest thing for a new dog is to restrict it to a safe zone while it adapts to your house. If you aren't comfortable with crating, then somehow dog proofing a room or gating off the kitchen can be an acceptable alternative. Giving the dog free reign of the whole house/yard is seriously dangerous. S/he could chew through baseboards and cut its throat, get into the trash and eat something poisonous, or, once again, get into all sorts of trouble in the back yard. Once you know your dog better, you can expand their boundaries in the house if you want to.

And those poisoned meat stories happen in all kinds of neighborhoods All it takes is a dog barking outside, and a neighbor who dislikes that. Crazy knows no economic standards.

Five German Shepherd puppies poisoned to death - WALB.com News, Weather and Sports for Albany, Valdosta and Thomasville. Leading the way for South Georgia. |
Dog Owner Suspects Three Pit Bulls Poisoned - WGHP (http://www.myfox8.com/news/wghp-story-puppies-100825,0,1991275.story - broken link)
Family's dog allegedly poisoned with antifreeze (http://www.wrdw.com/crimeteam12/headlines/101267669.html - broken link)
Fort Worth Community Mourns Poisoned Dogs - cbs11tv.com (http://cbs11tv.com/local/community.mourns.dogs.2.1877618.html - broken link)

All in the past week or so The DC case was in Dupont a few months back, not exactly a bad part of the city.

Not trying to scare you or be all "crazy dog lady" on you...but for the safety of your dog, a 24/7 dog door with access to the yard is not the best idea. Would it work? Possibly. But do you want to test that theory? It is heart stopping to watch your dog who slipped out of the house tear across the street into traffic. My escape artist figured out how to open door knobs (!!!) and was letting herself out of our old apartment for a while, until we had a deadbolt installed. It's not fun.

K, sorry for the novel. You'll probably get 10x that much info from any good breeder or rescue though, so be prepared Everyone just wants what's best for the animals, that's all! I'm sure you'll be a great dog home.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-02-2010, 03:30 PM
 
309 posts, read 826,230 times
Reputation: 99
Caliterp07 has a lot of great advice and you will hear all this from any reputable dog rescue group. Yes, some of the volunteers can be a little "intense", but we always kept in mind that they wanted the dog to have a forever home. Choosing an animal to join your family shouldn't be as easy as going to a pet store and looking for the cutest face. Obviously there are many considerations as this animal will share your home for 10+ years.

You mention that you have a partner, any plans for extending the family beyond the dog in the next 10+ years? Where a more aggressive breed might feel suitable now, what about in the next couple of years? 77% of dog bites happen to friends/family of the dog owner and on their property. I liken this to keeping a gun in your house. Is the gun really going to keep you safe if someone breaks into your house? Or could you potentially shoot a loved one?

Don't mean to preach, but a lot of thought should go into getting a breed that is very protective and can be quite aggressive.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Settings
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2020 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Virginia > Northern Virginia
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:42 AM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top