Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Virginia > Northern Virginia
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 09-13-2010, 10:26 PM
 
3,164 posts, read 6,935,951 times
Reputation: 1279

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by claremarie View Post
I agree that any reference to TJ on this list is not particularly helpful, as high SAT scores in that case do not necessarily reflect the "excellence" of the school but rather the high standards for admission in the first place. My guess is that the SAT scores at TJ wouldn't be that much lower if they were administered on the first day of school to the freshman class.
YUP. Most TJ students score very well on the SAT in the 6 or 7th grade. Smart kids in=smart kids out.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-14-2010, 06:27 AM
 
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
14,129 posts, read 31,184,179 times
Reputation: 6920
I'd love to see a comparison of what happens with TJ kids over the 30 years following their graduation versus the not-as-smart kids who go to the better private schools in the area like St. Albans. My hypothesis would be that on average the private school kids would end up higher up on the success ladder, proving that it's better to be lucky than smart.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-14-2010, 07:42 AM
 
2,462 posts, read 8,905,443 times
Reputation: 1003
Quote:
Originally Posted by JEB77 View Post
There's a difference between acknowledging that the test scores at TJ are primarily due to the intellectual calibre of its students and suggesting that a group of TJ freshman, rather than TJ seniors, could score close to 2200 on the SATs.
I'd put money on it. Give them a few days to look over the principles of geometry (if they haven't already taken it in 8th grade) and Algebra II, and they'd be good to go. I'll bet that quite a few of them took the test in 7th grade to qualify for the Johns Hopkins or other summer programs for gifted kids.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-14-2010, 07:48 AM
 
5,125 posts, read 10,064,571 times
Reputation: 2871
Quote:
Originally Posted by claremarie View Post
I'd put money on it. Give them a few days to look over the principles of geometry (if they haven't already taken it in 8th grade) and Algebra II, and they'd be good to go. I'll bet that quite a few of them took the test in 7th grade to qualify for the Johns Hopkins or other summer programs for gifted kids.
Easy to say you'd put money on it, since neither you nor Denton56 have offered concrete evidence to prove it. Math is only 1/3 of the test. TJ freshmen might do very well, but whether on average they would score to close to 2200 is a different question.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-14-2010, 08:10 AM
 
Location: Dudes in brown flip-flops
660 posts, read 1,701,846 times
Reputation: 346
Quote:
Originally Posted by JEB77 View Post
Easy to say you'd put money on it, since neither you nor Denton56 have offered concrete evidence to prove it. Math is only 1/3 of the test. TJ freshmen might do very well, but whether on average they would score to close to 2200 is a different question.
As a former TJ student, I'll say that my 11th grade SAT score was 300 points higher than it was in 7th grade, and that my verbal score accounted for about 2/3 of the improvements. Even if I'd taken it in 9th grade, I probably would have done about 200 points worse than I ultimately did.

I agree with JEB77 that even if TJ freshmen would do fine on the math section of the SAT, they wouldn't do nearly as well on the verbal or writing sections. Sure, they would probably do better than freshmen at other area high schools, but the idea that TJ students don't improve their vocabulary and writing ability between 9th and 11th grades suggests that teachers at TJ, or at least the humanities teachers, are largely superfluous as far as improving their students' skill set is concerned.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-14-2010, 08:29 AM
 
Location: among the clustered spires
2,380 posts, read 4,505,008 times
Reputation: 891
Quote:
Originally Posted by JEB77 View Post
Nice try. The scores actually went up more at Mount Vernon this year (65 points) than at any other school in the county, even though they are the lowest again. On the other hand, more students have been taking the SATs at Mount Vernon in recent years than in prior years. Many would argue it's better to encourage more students to take the SAT test, even if it lowers the school's average scores. It's another one of those areas where schools that try to do the right thing for their students sometimes end up having it held against them.
Which is why there should also be # of SAT's taken, or if possible # of students taking the SAT -- akin to the Challenge Index which does reward schools for trying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DC Oldtimer View Post
I agree with you. The high SAT scores at TJ are first and foremost due to the enormous intellectual capital of the students.

For all the focus on which school is best, I remain unconvinced that there is a dime's worth of difference in teaching quality from one FFX County school to the next.
But there is a difference in terms of discipline incidents, etc., among the student body. There may be fluctuations among administration/teaching staff between the schools but not really co-relating to the wealth of the student body's parents.

I'm not sure if any of the schools have a reputation among FCPS staff as "get the fark out ASAP." That would make a difference -- is there any data on seniority of faculty at the various schools?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-14-2010, 08:46 AM
 
5,125 posts, read 10,064,571 times
Reputation: 2871
Quote:
Originally Posted by stpickrell View Post
Which is why there should also be # of SAT's taken, or if possible # of students taking the SAT -- akin to the Challenge Index which does reward schools for trying.
You can basically figure this out if you make the effort. In Mount Vernon's case, it has been been a school with a relatively high drop-out rate, as reflected by the fact that there have often been a lot more freshmen than seniors. At least in the 2008-09 year, the school started to reverse that trend, and the percentage of seniors taking the SATs also increased to around 70%. In comparison, only 62% of the seniors had taken the SATs in the prior two years.

The most favorable interpretation would be that the school is now doing a better job of convincing students to remain in school and also aim for higher education. It would be good to have more data, however, to see if this trend has continued (FCPS has released the SAT scores for the class of 2010, but hasn't yet updated the web pages for individual schools to disclose how many seniors took the test at each school).

Last edited by JD984; 09-14-2010 at 09:40 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-14-2010, 08:51 AM
 
2,462 posts, read 8,905,443 times
Reputation: 1003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen 81 View Post
the idea that TJ students don't improve their vocabulary and writing ability between 9th and 11th grades suggests that teachers at TJ, or at least the humanities teachers, are largely superfluous as far as improving their students' skill set is concerned.
And I wouldn't make that claim. However, the SAT doesn't necessarily measure the sort of abilities that may be improved after 2-3 years at TJ -- it does measure a fairly narrow set of skills that many TJ students have mastered at a relatively early age.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-14-2010, 12:11 PM
 
Location: New-Dentist Colony
5,759 posts, read 10,695,803 times
Reputation: 3952
This is interesting. Anyone know if Arlington County's test scores are available?

BTW, kids in Arlington can also go to TJ.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-14-2010, 12:24 PM
 
5,125 posts, read 10,064,571 times
Reputation: 2871
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlingtonian View Post
This is interesting. Anyone know if Arlington County's test scores are available?

BTW, kids in Arlington can also go to TJ.
Yes - see below (I've often thought Yorktown and McLean, and to some extent Marshall and W-L, matched up reasonably closely).


1.TJ 2200
2.Langley 1812
3.McLean 1778
YORKTOWN 1741
4.Woodson 1738
5.Madison 1734
6.Oakton 1729
7.Marshall 1690
WASHINGTON-LEE 1670
8.Robinson 1665
9.Chantilly 1663 (+1)
STONE BRIDGE - 1655
10.West Springfield 1644 (+3)
11.Herndon 1642 (+1)
POTOMAC FALLS - 1640
12.Lake Braddock 1639 (-1)
13.Fairfax 1635 (+1)
LOUDOUN VALLEY - 1635
14.Westfield 1625 (-5)
BROAD RUN - 1619
DOMINION - 1618
BRIAR WOODS - 1613
LOUDOUN COUNTY - 1612
15.Centreville 1596 (-1)
16.South Lakes 1578 (+1)
17.South County 1572 (-1)
HERITAGE - 1564
FREEDOM - 1563
18.West Potomac 1561
19.Stuart 1532 (+1)
20.Annandale 1518 (+1)
21.Edison 1512 (-2)
22.Falls Church 1505 (+2)
23.Lee 1504 (-1)
PARK VIEW - 1486
WAKEFIELD - 1484
24.Hayfield 1475 (-1)
25.Mount Vernon 1458
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Settings
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2020 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Virginia > Northern Virginia
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:27 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top