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Old 10-01-2010, 09:17 PM
 
Location: DMV
10,125 posts, read 13,917,056 times
Reputation: 3222

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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVA1990 View Post
Because under the law my understanding is that if they were to commit a crime these TPS residents can be deported. Also, as to the sanctimoniously delivered question above "why don't they just become citizens?", people here under TPS have no advantage over anyone else in gettting it. It's highly unlikely they could, even if they've lived here from the time they were a small child, which many around here have.
I'm confused by your stance on this issue. Well if they are over here by TPS and they commit a crime, then what is the problem with sending them back to their country? They are supposed to 'temporary', which means they don't have a permanent citizenship here, so what would give them the right to stay here? If they can't become citizens than I'm sorry maybe that is something that needs to change, but a law is a law, if you break a law and you are not a citizen, you must be deported. There is no if, ands, or buts in that. It is clear. I'm sorry you can't put conditions on law. If the TPS residents aren't given a fair shot of being citizens than maybe they should work to change their status so they can have a better shot at becoming a citizen.
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Old 10-01-2010, 09:27 PM
 
Location: DMV
10,125 posts, read 13,917,056 times
Reputation: 3222
Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVA1990 View Post
That's a fair and honest answer. A lot of smoke gets blown about illegals and the real issues get lost in it.

My question is whether there should be TPS in the first place. Many times it puts us and these folks into rather uncomfortable situations as in the case of a 19 year old lifelong resident being exiled to a strange land for a relatively minor offense.
I don't think it puts us in an uncomfortable situation at all. If you are that age, then you should know the difference between right or wrong. Minor offense or not, you are still breaking the law in a country that you're not a citizen of. Nobody forced him to commit the crime so why should anybody bare the burden of him being sent back when he made a conscience adult decision? It's not like he would be a pre-schooler doing this.

Just to bring this back so that our great moderator doesn't stop this conversation. What is the motivation of Arlington County and DC to stop this program? If somebody is breaking the law then they have consequences they have to suffer. I mean what will be next, are they going to stop arresting people who are drinking and driving? When you let people break law, you open the door for so much more and judging from what was said in the original article it sounds like they wanted to sneak this through without much debate. To me, if you are truly doing the right thing and doing what people want then you don't have to hide what you're doing.
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Old 10-01-2010, 09:34 PM
 
Location: Macao
16,284 posts, read 42,968,010 times
Reputation: 10231
This thread is going in interesting directions.

First, there is an assumption that foreigner=criminal, or people with TP have a higher propensity to commit crimes (at least it seems that is what some people are alluding to on here). Most of them do not, I have worked with and even dated very normal people who look and act exactly like everyone else, often times with quite high degrees and status in their home countries, who just happen to have a stipulation that they can be deported at literally anytime that the U.S. government decides that their home country is 'safe' to be sent back permanantly. It is usually the educated politically active classes that need the refugee status to begin with, generally not the lowlifes, although technically who can always decipher them all. It also takes time and work to gain amnesty as well. (Imagine that you were in that situation, happy living in NOVA, but knowing at any moment, you could be on a plane elsewhere, it hinders you psychologically with relationships, the future, career, buying a house, settling down, etc.) That being said, there are cases where masses come in without much observance as to who is who among the immigrants coming in under such status.

The CRIMINAL part. Sure, some of them make it to America, or turn criminal from years of living in the States. There are foreign criminals just like there are american criminals. It's been common practice for years that they are sent back to the country of origin if they commit serious crimes. I wonder if anyone is really debating this. I am more surprised that some people think this is actually a 'horrible' thing. Foreign countries are not horrible places.

My issue with them is not that foreign countries are horrible, as they aren't, but that the person gets a free airline ticket somewhere without punishment. These same people can just as easily slip right back into the U.S. right after being deported. Not a bad deal, commit a serious crime, get free airfare to another country, and come right back and continue doing whatever you were doing before without any serious punishment.

Last edited by Tiger Beer; 10-01-2010 at 09:46 PM..
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Old 10-01-2010, 09:42 PM
 
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
14,129 posts, read 31,121,390 times
Reputation: 6920
Quote:
Originally Posted by meatkins View Post
I don't think it puts us in an uncomfortable situation at all. If you are that age, then you should know the difference between right or wrong. Minor offense or not, you are still breaking the law in a country that you're not a citizen of. Nobody forced him to commit the crime so why should anybody bare the burden of him being sent back when he made a conscience adult decision? It's not like he would be a pre-schooler doing this.

Just to bring this back so that our great moderator doesn't stop this conversation. What is the motivation of Arlington County and DC to stop this program? If somebody is breaking the law then they have consequences they have to suffer. I mean what will be next, are they going to stop arresting people who are drinking and driving? When you let people break law, you open the door for so much more and judging from what was said in the original article it sounds like they wanted to sneak this through without much debate. To me, if you are truly doing the right thing and doing what people want then you don't have to hide what you're doing.
Local and Federal priorities in matters such as these don't always match. Sort of how attitudes in many locales about marijuana and gun possession don't square with what some perceive as draconian Federal laws. If I enjoy going out on my 500 acre ranch, smoking some grass, and shooting a contraband 1920s .410 gauge single shot shotgun pistol (outlawed under the 1934 Firearms Act) at some tin cans I'd probably feel a bit put upon if my local sheriff who happened to stop by were compelled to call the Feds to show up and throw me in prison for 10 years just because of some ridiculous Federal laws on the books.
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Old 10-01-2010, 10:20 PM
 
Location: DMV
10,125 posts, read 13,917,056 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVA1990 View Post
Local and Federal priorities in matters such as these don't always match. Sort of how attitudes in many locales about marijuana and gun possession don't square with what some perceive as draconian Federal laws. If I enjoy going out on my 500 acre ranch, smoking some grass, and shooting a contraband 1920s .410 gauge single shot shotgun pistol (outlawed under the 1934 Firearms Act) at some tin cans I'd probably feel a bit put upon if my local sheriff who happened to stop by were compelled to call the Feds to show up and throw me in prison for 10 years just because of some ridiculous Federal laws on the books.
Okay and that's the problem. Nobody wants to enforce the law, the way it is. You can't make laws conditional. Laws are laws. If people break them, there are consequences. We have to get back to doing that, instead of trying to make exceptions just to cater to a certain group of people, you have to enforce the law as it is written. If the Federal law is the law of the land then that should be what is upheld, but the problem is the Federal Government hasn't enforced certain laws like they are supposed to, so states and other local areas are creating their own enforcement of the law. It is just a mess.
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Old 10-02-2010, 05:13 AM
 
461 posts, read 906,271 times
Reputation: 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by meatkins View Post
You can't make laws conditional. Laws are laws. If people break them, there are consequences. We have to get back to doing that, instead of trying to make exceptions just to cater to a certain group of people..
That really gets back to one of the original points of this thread. The Arlington County Council chose backhanded tactics to pass this evasion of the law. It's like Mexican government tactics x2. On this thread or another, I hope we can explore just what the heck is going on with those folks on the Council

On another thread, I noticed that Tacoma Park had its boundaries moved into less liberal (hard to believe) Montgomery County, MD. PG County should be a multicultural paradise but its corruption on contracting lead to a stoppage in the allowing utility permits and a host of other problems, so that it's now in a downward spiral. In fact Montgomery County is headed that way too. Of course people from MD are now escaping NOVA and bringing their bad ideas with them so the we can join the metastasizing cancer.

The point with Arlington is that it's a really great area for a lot of reasons. Just the same if you keep the backhanded tactics going it will be another PG County, and the fear is that it will spread everywhere else.

Take history as an example. PG County used to be ridiculed, with the term "PG County ..." in vogue. Then DC expatriots moved in because DC was so bad. Again, I just want to emphasize the word "corruption."

Someone needs to say "stop!" the the Arlington County Council and illegal immigration advocates in general. If you don't agree with a law, change it through the democratic process. Otherwise, the whole area is going Third World.

Last edited by FindingZen; 10-02-2010 at 08:07 PM.. Reason: although it may have been out of context, that term is considered to be offensive on City-Data
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Old 10-02-2010, 08:17 AM
 
Location: somewhere
4,264 posts, read 9,241,923 times
Reputation: 3165
Quote:
Originally Posted by meatkins View Post
I don't think it puts us in an uncomfortable situation at all. If you are that age, then you should know the difference between right or wrong. Minor offense or not, you are still breaking the law in a country that you're not a citizen of. Nobody forced him to commit the crime so why should anybody bare the burden of him being sent back when he made a conscience adult decision? It's not like he would be a pre-schooler doing this.

Just to bring this back so that our great moderator doesn't stop this conversation. What is the motivation of Arlington County and DC to stop this program? If somebody is breaking the law then they have consequences they have to suffer. I mean what will be next, are they going to stop arresting people who are drinking and driving? When you let people break law, you open the door for so much more and judging from what was said in the original article it sounds like they wanted to sneak this through without much debate. To me, if you are truly doing the right thing and doing what people want then you don't have to hide what you're doing.
This was my question too. Does Arlington know something the average citizen doesn't know about the population that would benefit from Arlington being a sanctuary city? As said yesterday unless Arlington is going to pick and chose who they fingerprint, logically there is no way to make this work. Once a suspect is fingerprinted it automatically goes to the FBI fingerprint database, so how Arlington going to decide who gets fingerprinted.
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Old 10-02-2010, 08:23 AM
 
Location: somewhere
4,264 posts, read 9,241,923 times
Reputation: 3165
Quote:
Originally Posted by meatkins View Post
I'm confused by your stance on this issue. Well if they are over here by TPS and they commit a crime, then what is the problem with sending them back to their country? They are supposed to 'temporary', which means they don't have a permanent citizenship here, so what would give them the right to stay here? If they can't become citizens than I'm sorry maybe that is something that needs to change, but a law is a law, if you break a law and you are not a citizen, you must be deported. There is no if, ands, or buts in that. It is clear. I'm sorry you can't put conditions on law. If the TPS residents aren't given a fair shot of being citizens than maybe they should work to change their status so they can have a better shot at becoming a citizen.
just wanted to point out they don't have citizenship at all, they merely have legal residency, big difference in the two, same as someone coming to the US on a green card or VISA, from any country, you get caught committing a criminal act and you get deported
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Old 10-02-2010, 11:56 PM
 
213 posts, read 401,917 times
Reputation: 482
Quote:
Originally Posted by FairfaxGuy73 View Post
In fact Montgomery County is headed that way too.
Sad, but true. I left Montgomery County at least in part because my neighborhood in East Rockville/Wheaton was in serious decline (didn't move to NOVA though - went to a different part of the country).

Now I did not give a hoot about the race, color or creed of those people causing problems. But I most definitely did give a hoot about their antisocial and deleterious behavior. The problems were REAL and did not just spring out of the imagination of some racists and bigots (too bad that in our present political climate anyone who points that out risks being called such).

Montgomery County's policy of sanctuary is IMO ill-advised and will be a burden on the county taxpayers. But with their public-be-damned attitude toward raising taxes, the County Council will extract the funding to support their social science experimentation from said taxpayers. It's too bad to see Arlington County going in the same direction.

Believe it or not, I am not some raving right-winger. I'm actually quite liberal on social issues. But I believe this country has a right and a duty to control its borders and enforce its laws.
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