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Old 10-15-2010, 02:53 PM
 
3,164 posts, read 6,926,080 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwguydc View Post
People already live in suburban developments in Warrenton and Culpeper, and have for years. It's not a new phenomenon out there, though there are controls in place in Warrenton because it's hunt country. Now, if we were to see conversions of some estates in Upperville or The Plains, then that would be a significant change.

So, we are to displace the poor residents in favor of gentrification for wealthier residents to be forced to live in environments that they do not want as in the case of the older sections of Falls Church, Annandale, etc.? Cities cannot survive without low-wage workers, and if they are subjected to onerous commutes that they cannot afford in terms of time or cost, they will relocate to other areas. This has a net effect of pushing prices for goods and services even higher because to attract a worker to deal with the hassles in cost and time, the business has to pay significantly more for an unskilled position than they would have to in other areas of the country. The housing that exists could be rehabilitated, but I do not favor large-scale demolition in favor of gentrification for the creation of housing closer-in that is going to be priced significantly higher because of land cost, relocation of current residents, demolition, and reconstruction. As Caladium pointed out, these are not areas of wholesale abandonment and decay. The other issue is that said properties that are slated for redevelopment are in private hands, so how exactly to we co-opt the right to property? We are not referencing publicly-owned properties in the aforementioned areas.

Brooklyn Heights is very expensive, where a small apartment costs the same as a house in Gainesville, so I do not see that as an appropriate comparison. Moreover, NYC has suburbs, even suburbs still under construction like Gainesville, in Dutchess and Orange Counties, so it's not a car-free, transit-oriented population that inhabits the Tri-State Area. NYC also has a profound housing shortage, which is why marginal properties in not-so-great neighborhoods rent for significantly higher than they are worth, just as a comparison, since that's a topic for NYC to discuss the reasons for it.

People have the freedom of choice in this country, and are free to live in the style of house, neighborhood, and location that they prefer, and that meets their budget. Why should someone be forced to live in a smaller house on half the land in Annandale, when they want a new house with tall ceilings and an environment that's removed from the influences of the city?

And, referencing the "common good" argument, why is it in the common interest to force people to live in smaller, denser accommodations? How does this not counter the personal liberty that is a fundamental aspect of the American way of life? Zoning regulations are an appropriate governance on the use of land in the "common good," as are individual neighborhood covenants/HOA regulations that are described at the outset of a purchase, where one has the ability to choose to live under those rules or not. Forcing people into higher densities, or into in-fill environments where they do not want to live runs counter to the personal liberty to spend one's housing dollar on the home of their choice.
I am loving your posts! Thank you so much for educating all of us and reminding us of reality and our liberties.
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Old 10-15-2010, 02:58 PM
 
3,164 posts, read 6,926,080 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caladium View Post
Well, kiddies, it's been fun chatting with you but my work is now done. All this talk of Gainesville has put me in the mood for driving out on Rt. 50 towards the mountains.

It's a glorious fall day and just the thought of stopping by the Gainesville Weggies for one of their subs has me in a very good mood. Not to mention the sight of the mountains, which really start to become pretty about the time I drive by G'ville. Sometimes I'm very envious of you ngadude, for having such a nice view. Have a good weekend, everyone, and don't forget to spend time outside. It's gorgeous out there!
I am sitting in my house, looking at short hill mountain with some beautiful orange and yellow trees! I think I'll take a drive in the country to see more of them! Heck, I might even choose to do that in my BMW or my son's big truck! Ain't America great?! We're all free to do as we choose!
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Old 10-15-2010, 03:08 PM
 
3,164 posts, read 6,926,080 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RestonRunner86 View Post
-As a very physically active person who leads a healthy lifestyle I resent paying more for health insurance because premiums and co-pays are driven up by those who have the "freedom of choice" to do themselves wrong by smoking, being obese, binge drinking, etc. Why should one's choice to be irresponsible for their own health detrimentally impact me financially as someone who IS health-conscious?

-As a non-smoker I resent having to inhale the exhaust of a cigarette as I step into an elevator in which the prior occupant had smelled like a chimney. Why should I surrender the ability to breathe clean air to give someone else the "freedom of choice" to smoke in public areas?

-As someone who conserves energy I resent that utility bills rise for everyone during periods of higher demand. Those who want the "freedom of choice" to live in a McMansion with voluminous square footage pay on their own with higher utility bills, but then the rest of us also pay because energy is a commodity driven by demand, and rates wouldn't be as high as they are if Mr. Jones wasn't heating and cooling the formal media room he only uses once per year.

-As someone who doesn't like to see our brave men and women dying overseas in conflicts aimed to unseat dictators who threaten our supply of oil I resent that people utilize their "freedom of choice" to buy Hummers that they only intend to drive to their offices, grocery stores, restaurants, etc. when they could buy a Prius for much less money and conserve more fuel, thereby reducing our national demand for fossil fuels and help to wean us onto alternative energies so we can avoid "peak oil" EVER coming to a painful reality.

-As someone who wants his own grandchildren to enjoy the same natural beauty and scenic vistas that he is currently able to enjoy I resent that "freedom of choice" means that a Wal-Mart and beige-vinyl-sided tract-homes on cul-de-sacs are viewed as being a better usage for that land.


It's also ironic that I still can't legally wed in this Commonwealth that is supposedly noted for its excellent "freedom of choice" in all the above areas (and others I'm not listing), but I digress.

I'll always have a "common good" mindset because I'm an idealist. I don't see how eventually paving over nearly every square inch of land in an arc stretching from Winchester to Culpeper to Fredericksburg with car-centric developments is helpful to the "common good" when you can house just as many people on a fraction of the land area.
Wow! Sorry that you resent so much about America. Sorry that you resent having to help others who may not have the background, education, or ability, to make all the healthy choices that you have made. Sorry that you resent any charity that is shown to those people who have not made all of your excellent choices in life. Sorry that you resent everyone who doesn't make the choices that you make. Your choices aren't right or wrong. Neither are the choices of others. Everyone does the best that then can with the background, resources, and abilities, that they have. No one makes perfect choices all the time because we're all human. Why not be a bit more charitable to those who might choose another way of life? Some people shop at Walmart because that's all they can afford. Why resent them for that? Why resent people who can afford some land and a big house after a lifetime of hard work? Why resent people who can only afford to live further out in a vinyl sided house? Why resent anyone for how they choose to live? It only makes you unhappy and it won't force them to change and make the choices that you think they should make.
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Old 10-15-2010, 03:08 PM
 
509 posts, read 970,944 times
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Moderator cut: Orphaned quote/comment: Trying to keep the thread somewhat on Gainesville and urban/suburban planning in the same context.

Yet you want people to live in dense housing, when lots of them don't want to. Seems contradictory. You don't want us to have our roads improved, when most of us would want that. The road improvement to that intersection has been in the planning stages for nearly 10 years. "Mixing bowl west" - that's a riot since it is 2 roads coming together and a railroad crossing. A far cry from the real Mixing Bowl in Springfield. Perhaps if they'd have run Metro or the VRE out here years ago like they should have, the roads wouldn't be so crowded. Oh, I know, running Metro out here would be bad because it would make for even more suburban sprawl!

Last edited by bmwguydc; 10-15-2010 at 04:47 PM.. Reason: Refocused post to reflect Gainesville-related topics
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Old 10-15-2010, 03:16 PM
 
509 posts, read 970,944 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denton56 View Post
Wow! Sorry that you resent so much about America. Sorry that you resent having to help others who may not have the background, education, or ability, to make all the healthy choices that you have made. Sorry that you resent any charity that is shown to those people who have not made all of your excellent choices in life. Sorry that you resent everyone who doesn't make the choices that you make. Your choices aren't right or wrong. Neither are the choices of others. Everyone does the best that then can with the background, resources, and abilities, that they have. No one makes perfect choices all the time because we're all human. Why not be a bit more charitable to those who might choose another way of life? Some people shop at Walmart because that's all they can afford. Why resent them for that? Why resent people who can afford some land and a big house after a lifetime of hard work? Why resent people who can only afford to live further out in a vinyl sided house? Why resent anyone for how they choose to live? It only makes you unhappy and it won't force them to change and make the choices that you think they should make.
Sure is a lot of resentment there - must make for a very unhappy life. If I allowed myself to resent all the things that other people do that I don't like, I'd be miserable. It's America, and there is freedom of choice, and the price for that is seeing a lot of things you don't like. I don't like smokers either, but fortunately nowadays there's enough laws in place to make them not a problem in a lot of places I am - such as work, the airport, shopping malls, etc. Although I can remember a time when one of the cig. companies threatened to pull their account from my former employer - IBM - when back in early 80's IBM instituted a no-smoking policy at their facilities. Fortunately, IBM didn't back down, which was good as there used to be a secretary who sat in the secretary area outside my office that smoked like a chimney!
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Old 10-15-2010, 03:16 PM
 
1,526 posts, read 2,248,113 times
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The chronic generalizations about DC Metropolitan area are what irk everyone. Your lack of knowing the difference between a debate, as opposed to stating your unilateral opinion without regard to learning anything from anyone else on the forum. The fact that you seem to know it all at 22 and tell everyone how selfish and unenlightened they are.......

Funny how all this ills of this country are all concentrated here in NOVA

I wish you luck
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Old 10-15-2010, 03:21 PM
 
3,164 posts, read 6,926,080 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RestonRunner86 View Post
I was trying to point out parallels that showcase how people need to start realizing that their "freedoms" can and often do detrimentally impact others, wrongfully, and that just because you have the "right" to do something doesn't necessarily make you saintly for doing it. People have the "freedom" to live in McMansions in exurbs and drive gas-guzzlers back-and-forth in heavy traffic, but why should I have to subsidize that freedom through tax dollars spent to improve the infrastructure there or endure the opportunity costs of then not being able to use that funding in a better way for the "common good?"

So few in NoVA can think of anyone but themselves. Everything you do has an action or a consquence upon someone else, and it's the continued demonstration of the lack of people's cognizance of this here that I will not miss when I move away.
Ah yes, people in NOVA are just too stupid to think of others but people in the rest of the country are much less selfish. The rest of the country would never buy a house that they want if it increases ''urban sprawl'' as defined by, by, by whoever is defining it.
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Old 10-15-2010, 03:24 PM
 
509 posts, read 970,944 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Middlin View Post
The chronic generalizations about DC Metropolitan area are what irk everyone. Your lack of knowing the difference between a debate, as opposed to stating your unilateral opinion without regard to learning anything from anyone else on the forum. The fact that you seem to know it all at 22 and tell everyone how selfish and unenlightened they are.......

Funny how all this ills of this country are all concentrated here in NOVA

I wish you luck
Well said.

That's what I was getting at. The generalizations are what makes people a little unhappy - not to mention the tone of the posts, and the continuing implication that most people in NOVA are obsessed with jobs, trying to push everyone else under the bus, etc. Most people I know here aren't like that. There are a few, but they are the minority, and they are EVERYWHERE - not just here in NOVA.

I hope he's happier in Pittsburgh...
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Old 10-15-2010, 03:26 PM
 
3,164 posts, read 6,926,080 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ngadude View Post
Well said.

That's what I was getting at. The generalizations are what makes people a little unhappy - not to mention the tone of the posts, and the continuing implication that most people in NOVA are obsessed with jobs, trying to push everyone else under the bus, etc. Most people I know here aren't like that. There are a few, but they are the minority, and they are EVERYWHERE - not just here in NOVA.

I hope he's happier in Pittsburgh...
As do we all!
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Old 10-15-2010, 03:49 PM
 
3,164 posts, read 6,926,080 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ngadude View Post
Another great post! You know what - I see lots and lots of hummers on my commute to my office in Reston - but they are all along Fairfax County Parkway. I have not noticed them here in Gainesville. Yet another generalization about GAinesville!!! In fact, I dare say Reston has more Hummers driving around in Gainesville.

People throwing buckets of chicken in the streets - hilarious! I'll have to watch for that so I don't get hit with a flying chicken next time I go out for a walk! I didn't realize ONLY people in the suburbs did that! Yeah, we rednecks out here in the country aren't civilized - we roar down the roads in our Hummers, throw trash out the windows, and don't care about the "sprawl" we are creating.

Not every house is a McMansion. I don't believe mine qualifies - it is not that large as houses go. In my neighborhood, there are single family homes that are in the 1800 square feet range. Are they McMansions. Mine is a little bigger at 2540 square feet, but I don't consider it a McMansion unless it is 3000 square feet or more.

Of course, it is not surprising these generalizations about Gainesville - we've seen them made time and time before on this subforum.

By the way, I happen to drive a Prius - and I'm not the only one in Gainesville, or even in my neighborhood. Kind of shoots the "everyone drives a Hummer" theory to pieces, doesn't it?

Hummers must be really popular since they aren't being made anymore! They really are the minority, even in this area. OK, there's lots of SUV's around Gainesville and other parts, but Hummers??? Come on now. Anyway, good luck buying one in the future. Now, for work I occaisionally drive a military Humvee, but that's another story.....
I am feeling some deep shame now. By your definition, I live in a McMansion, and on top of that, I drive a BMW. BUT, I don't smoke and I never buy buckets of chicken. There's no KFC in my town.
But still.........I am doing mea culpas, even as I type, for many other poor choices of lifestyle.
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