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Old 04-01-2011, 01:02 PM
 
Location: In the woods
3,286 posts, read 5,023,330 times
Reputation: 1406
Since moving to Winchester, the confederate-thing looks more like a mesh than ever (to me). There is Stonewall Jackson's HQ in town. But there is also George Washington's surveying structure (he was here before becoming president). There's a "Jubal Early Drive" but there's also a magnificent library and high school built by Judge John Handley, a PA Union officer who camped in Winchester and created endowments even though he never lived here. I took a walk through the cemetery last week and there are confederate headstones buried near Quakers and everything else. There's such a mix of structures, statues, and historic sites here it's hard to get offended by anything that's "purely" civil war.

Now, if I saw people walking around town in the gray outfits with kepi hats, I might think twice. Saw this once when visiting in Charleston, SC. But since I was a yankee, I was already getting dirty looks for criticizing this . . . .
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Old 04-01-2011, 02:39 PM
 
Location: You want kimchi with that?
8,479 posts, read 5,885,023 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michgc View Post
I assume that Mosby Woods Elementary School is named after John Mosby, a Civil War colonel.

its actually named after John Mosby, terrorist.
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Old 04-01-2011, 02:40 PM
 
Location: You want kimchi with that?
8,479 posts, read 5,885,023 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by South Jersey Styx View Post
Now, if I saw people walking around town in the gray outfits with kepi hats, I might think twice. Saw this once when visiting in Charleston, SC. But since I was a yankee, I was already getting dirty looks for criticizing this . . . .
they used to (still do?) have a civil war summer camp for kiddies at Ft Ward in Alex. We still have DD's BLUE kepi.
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Old 04-01-2011, 06:03 PM
 
1,403 posts, read 1,042,097 times
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Am I the only one who notices that -- unlike most of us cultural Anglo-Saxons (as Brits might call us in their occasional desire to feel close to their cultural, and more successful, progeny) -- the Japanese and the Southerners share romanticization of "the noble loser" (as does Hollywood, see "The Last Samurai" and "Letters from Iwo Jima")?

I am a Southerner by choice, and darn proud of it (and my patron saint is St. Jude, who is often called the patron saint of lost causes, to boot) and think Mosby was a pretty kick-ass raider but sometimes the romanticism of the Southern loss just gets too much even for me.

I felt the same way when I lived in Japan briefly where I kept running into very strong cultural attachment to "the glorious loser" who goes down in defeat nobly.

I mean, if we are going to name schools and put up statues of losers, could we at least do it for people who died for good causes?

I say, YOU LOST! GET OVER IT and stop romanticizing a dead, bad, lost cause. The best revenge is living well. Lower taxes, give people more freedom, attract businesses and jobs, increase affluence and make the Yankee die with envy in their crime-ridden, rust-belt cities!

Then name schools and streets after people who make that possible. Instead of losers. It's the NEW South, baby!
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Old 04-01-2011, 06:36 PM
 
2,667 posts, read 4,042,600 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IndiaLimaDelta View Post

I mean, if we are going to name schools and put up statues of losers, could we at least do it for people who died for good causes?

I say, YOU LOST! GET OVER IT and stop romanticizing a dead, bad, lost cause.
Totally agree.
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Old 04-01-2011, 06:42 PM
 
Location: Afghanistan
159 posts, read 139,966 times
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This is part of our American heritage, warts and all. What are we suppose to do? Get rid of all those names to fit some politically correct purpose? So what if it offends someone, it is just a reminder to us all that we as a nation can and will do better by setting the example for the younger generation. Unfortunately, some people still don't quite get it. I am proud of my American heritage, again warts and all. I am just saying if the person can't feel comfortable with the names he/she should reconsider living in this area.
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Old 04-01-2011, 07:09 PM
 
1,403 posts, read 1,042,097 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mideast View Post
This is part of our American heritage, warts and all. What are we suppose to do? Get rid of all those names to fit some politically correct purpose? So what if it offends someone, it is just a reminder to us all that we as a nation can and will do better by setting the example for the younger generation. Unfortunately, some people still don't quite get it. I am proud of my American heritage, again warts and all. I am just saying if the person can't feel comfortable with the names he/she should reconsider living in this area.
I am not offended. I just find it stupid to praise and honor losers. For a bad cause at that.

I mean, to engage in a little bit of what Dinesh D'Souza calls Reductio ad Hitlerum, Nazi Germany is a part of German history and heritage, too. You don't see Germans putting up statues of Himmler and Goering, notwithstanding the courage and skill of ordinary German infantrymen, tank commanders and fighter pilots.

There's a lot of wonderful things about the South. The genteelity, the chivalry (my pregnant wife was struggling with her groceries at Wegman's and an older woman admonished her teenage son to help her, immediately!), the charm, the respect for tradition, the religious devotion, the social and family relationships that are less frayed than in more urban, northern areas. Even in NoVA, which isn't exactly the Deep South, you still see vestiges of it, esp. once you start driving a bit away from the urban core.

If we are going to celebrate the local heritage, let's concentrate on the good stuff (not necessarily "politically correct"), not sore loserness. Our cultural and regional ancestors went for a ignoble lifestyle built on the suffering of "the others," and they went for it and failed and lost miserably. Let's move on, build a kick-ass, well-integrated multi-ethnic economy where people have more freedom, more guns () and more money and better functioning families, and let our Yankee cousins be the poor cousins for a change, in their de facto segregated urban neighborhoods at that.

Then, WE can look at them sadly, shake our heads and say, "Those poor racists. They just don't know better. Maybe we'll kick their asses in the next war and they'll learn."
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Old 04-01-2011, 08:05 PM
 
Location: Taxmanistan
4,139 posts, read 3,769,575 times
Reputation: 1956
Quote:
Originally Posted by mideast View Post
This is part of our American heritage, warts and all. What are we suppose to do? Get rid of all those names to fit some politically correct purpose? So what if it offends someone, it is just a reminder to us all that we as a nation can and will do better by setting the example for the younger generation. Unfortunately, some people still don't quite get it. I am proud of my American heritage, again warts and all. I am just saying if the person can't feel comfortable with the names he/she should reconsider living in this area.
So by this reasoning, there should be a Hitler Avenue in Berlin. Because hey, that's part of their history.

The Confederacy was a stain on our history--Americans rebelling against their own government for the right to own other people. We should indeed study history, but naming our infrastructure after its villains honors them. And that's bad.
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Old 04-01-2011, 09:37 PM
 
2,667 posts, read 4,042,600 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlingtonian View Post
The Confederacy was a stain on our history--Americans rebelling against their own government for the right to own other people. We should indeed study history, but naming our infrastructure after its villains honors them. And that's bad.
Well put.
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Old 04-02-2011, 06:03 AM
 
Location: Taxmanistan
4,139 posts, read 3,769,575 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankeesfan View Post
Well put.
Thanks. (And for the record, I'm a native Texan with ancestors who fought on both sides.)
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