U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Virginia > Northern Virginia
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-15-2011, 10:51 AM
 
Location: The Port City is rising.
8,777 posts, read 10,687,919 times
Reputation: 2508

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by VTHokieFan View Post
Maybe you should take some of your own advice?

http://www.city-data.com/forum/20463684-post177.html
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-15-2011, 10:55 AM
 
Location: Portland, OR
8,803 posts, read 7,567,630 times
Reputation: 4501
Quote:
Originally Posted by brooklynborndad View Post
Your post, like most of the ones you've made on this thread today are basically the same: you try to get your last word in on the off-topic argument, but then end it by saying "but this is off topic so it doesn't matter" in order to scape goat. Like I said, take your own advice.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-15-2011, 11:09 AM
 
Location: The Port City is rising.
8,777 posts, read 10,687,919 times
Reputation: 2508
Quote:
Originally Posted by VTHokieFan View Post
Your post, like most of the ones you've made on this thread today are basically the same: you try to get your last word in on the off-topic argument, but then end it by saying "but this is off topic so it doesn't matter" in order to scape goat. Like I said, take your own advice.

that post made reference to historical questions, only in so far as they are relevant to an on topic matter.

I am not sure why this is so complicated. "should lee and davis be honored in NoVa" ONTOPIC (though frankly, overdone) "can blame for slavery be attributed to CSA or USA as legal entities" OFF TOPIC (except in so far as it relates to "should lee and davis be honored in NoVa"
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-15-2011, 01:09 PM
 
19 posts, read 21,249 times
Reputation: 13
Default Secession and the blame of the USA for slavery

The secession of the Confederate states polorized the argument. Those who backed the institution of slavery allied themselves and aided those that left the union. Those that abhorred slavery joined with the Union. The defeat of this immoral institution proves the USA at its true core could not stand for this.

The United States of America that we live in today was the victor. As such we should continue to denounce slavery in all of its forms today and in the past. There was no honor in fighting for the Confederacy.

(I do agree that this thread should probably be continued in the history forum)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-15-2011, 01:20 PM
 
Location: Virginia-Shenandoah Valley
6,561 posts, read 10,861,310 times
Reputation: 5584
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kupono View Post
The secession of the Confederate states polorized the argument. Those who backed the institution of slavery allied themselves and aided those that left the union. Those that abhorred slavery joined with the Union. The defeat of this immoral institution proves the USA at its true core could not stand for this.

The United States of America that we live in today was the victor. As such we should continue to denounce slavery in all of its forms today and in the past. There was no honor in fighting for the Confederacy.

(I do agree that this thread should probably be continued in the history forum)
Just out of curiosity. Do you even have a dog in the fight? Do you live in NOVA?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-15-2011, 01:39 PM
 
Location: Portland, OR
8,803 posts, read 7,567,630 times
Reputation: 4501
Anyway, back to the topic. It appears that the general consensus is that passive tributes to comparatively non-controversial Confederate figures that have already been established don't draw enough ire to dismantle them.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-15-2011, 02:12 PM
 
19 posts, read 21,249 times
Reputation: 13
Default I do live in NOVA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigfoot424 View Post
Just out of curiosity. Do you even have a dog in the fight? Do you live in NOVA?
I do live in NOVA. Clinging to the Confederate past diminishes a truly wonderful state.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-15-2011, 02:18 PM
 
19 posts, read 21,249 times
Reputation: 13
Default The naming of these schools was not passive

Quote:
Originally Posted by VTHokieFan View Post
Anyway, back to the topic. It appears that the general consensus is that passive tributes to comparatively non-controversial Confederate figures that have already been established don't draw enough ire to dismantle them.
The naming of these schools was not passive. Virginia has named roads and schools to remind everyone where they really stand or perhaps stood. These names should be changed. The South will never rise again.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-15-2011, 02:36 PM
 
5,071 posts, read 8,625,320 times
Reputation: 2722
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kupono View Post
The naming of these schools was not passive. Virginia has named roads and schools to remind everyone where they really stand or perhaps stood. These names should be changed. The South will never rise again.
I'd be happy with that - if the students and parents at schools such as Stuart, Lee and Washington-Lee, and not just a C-D poster or two, would like the names changed. I believe you are correct that some of these schools (though not W-L) were named in the late 50s at a time when county and state officials were resisting coming to terms with Brown v. Board of Education.

It's not always simple, though. Current parents and students might want the names changed, or they might not. Even if they don't want to honor dead Confederate generals per se, they might want to preserve a link to prior generations of students and teachers at the school who won awards, championships, etc.

Another irony is that, here in NoVa, the schools named after dead Confederates are very diverse, with significant numbers of White, Black, Asian and Hispanic students. You can go across the river in Maryland and find schools that are named after "safe" political figures such as Kennedy and Shriver (Kennedy HS, Shriver ES), where the student populations are almost entirely non-White, the "progressive" former White residents having largely moved to other parts of Montgomery County or Howard County.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-15-2011, 02:45 PM
 
19 posts, read 21,249 times
Reputation: 13
Default Some names are more noble than others

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEB77 View Post
I'd be happy with that - if the students and parents at schools such as Stuart, Lee and Washington-Lee, and not just a C-D poster or two, would like the names changed. I believe you are correct that some of these schools (though not W-L) were named in the late 50s at a time when county and state officials were resisting coming to terms with Brown v. Board of Education.

It's not always simple, though. Current parents and students might want the names changed, or they might not. Even if they don't want to honor dead Confederate generals per se, they might want to preserve a link to prior generations of students and teachers at the school who won awards, championships, etc.

Another irony is that, here in NoVa, the schools named after dead Confederates are very diverse, with significant numbers of White, Black, Asian and Hispanic students. You can go across the river in Maryland and find schools that are named after "safe" political figures such as Kennedy and Shriver (Kennedy HS, Shriver ES), where the student populations are almost entirely non-White, the "progressive" former White residents having largely moved to Olney, Bethesda and further out in Howard County.
Anyone in America should be proud to teach the children about a president who put us on a path to the moon and started the Peace Corp., with the help of Sargent Shriver. No one would be proud to share to exploits of a traitor who in the end was humiliated.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2016 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Virginia > Northern Virginia
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:26 AM.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top