I'm a bit surprised NOVA localities haven't changed Confederate names (Richmond: public schools, taxes)

[slim04]

Originally Posted by VTHokieFan

There's still a Jefferson Davis Highway and a Robert E. Lee Hgh school as someone posted about below. Has anyone attempted to bring this up and change names, or is it really not worth the effort?

There's a Lee-Davis High School in Richmond and their athletic teams' names are the Confederates: the Lee-Davis Confederates which has me equally surprised. Would have thought there'd be a lawsuit or something soon.

I'm not offended at all by slight, unprominant references to the Confederate past like simply naming a school after Lee, but some people are.

Here's my opinion of this subject. A lot of these names and the rise of confederate nostalgia from the 1920's to the 1960's were in a reaction to efforts to curb Jim Crow laws and the growing civil rights movement.

The last time I checked, the civil rights reformers have almost completely won the battle. There are still civil rights issues, but they are more on the fringes than the outright seggregation that used to be the norm in Virginia.

When liberal groups attack confederate symbols today, they really don't care about the symbol itself. It is really a proxy battle to challenge deeper issues of racism and discrimination. But it is easier to attack clear confederate symbols in the media then campaign against subtle or isolated incidents of discrimination or policies that cause disproportionate impact on minorites.

Here in NoVa, there just really doesn't seem to be a lot of racial tension from the African American community and the local governments seem to take their concerns seriously. It's just not an issue where they or anyone would bother wasting their political capital when there are more important things they are interested in changing that affects their day to day lives.

[brooklynborndad]

Originally Posted by oneasterisk

Considering this country was created through insurrection, I don't mind the willingness of the people to stand up to their government.

yet AFAIK we have no official memorial to John Brown in Virginia, despite his strong historical association with the commonwealth.

Indeed we honor the men who crushed his rebellion, and who hung him.

[Bigfoot424]

Originally Posted by brooklynborndad

will someone please tell me what connection a Mississippi politician has to Northern Virginia?

It wasn't NOVA back in the Civil War. Just Va. And of course western Va which eventually became West Va. But JD was the president for the confederate states and served in Richmond. RT 1, aka Jefferson Davis Hwy, runs the entire state north to south. I'm fine with his name being associated with NOVA.

[JD984]

Originally Posted by brooklynborndad

See, to me thats the difference from Lee. Lee as a local figure, a person of importance before the war, during the war, and after the war.

Davis' sole connection to NoVa was that NoVa was in the VA, which was in the confederacy. Well A. NoVa (certainly arlington, anyway) was occupied by union troops - de facto it was NOT part of the confederacy. B. Virginia was not legally part of the confederacy. Per US law (which is the law we have followed since 1865) secession was legally null. The CSA was a legal nullity.

I can see something about Davis down where he lived. Maybe in Richmond. But in Arlington?

and isnt the usual defense of Confed nostalgia, that its about the "honorable" soldiers, not the CSA as a govt? That the flag is okay cause it was the battle flag, not the actual confed flag? Well then isnt it more reasonable to honor a general - like Lee, or Jackson or Stuart, but NOT a secessionist pol, like Davis?

Maybe NoVa should use this as a bargaining chip with Richmond when we're trying to get more funding for NoVa transportation projects: "give us our fair share of the money or we'll rename the Jefferson-Davis Highway "Grant (or, better yet, Sherman) Boulevard"!

[brooklynborndad]

Originally Posted by Bigfoot424

It wasn't NOVA back in the Civil War. Just Va. And of course western Va which eventually became West Va. But JD was the president for the confederate states and served in Richmond. RT 1, aka Jefferson Davis Hwy, runs the entire state north to south. I'm fine with his name being associated with NOVA.

Its not called JD highway in FFX.

Personally, as Northern Virginian, I am more proud of the Loudon rangers, and of Gen George Thomas, Virginians who chose for union and liberty. I would just as soon that folks associate Jeff Davis with Mississippi.

[brooklynborndad]

Originally Posted by JEB77

Maybe NoVa should use this as a bargaining chip with Richmond when we're trying to get more funding for NoVa transportation projects: "give us our fair share of the money or we'll rename the Jefferson-Davis Highway "Grant (or, better yet, Sherman) Boulevard"!

WT Sherman was actually, post war, a friend of the south (well the white south at any rate) and favored a soft peace, IIUC. For all the claims that southerners know their civil war history, I think there are some blind spots.

[oneasterisk]

Originally Posted by brooklynborndad

The CSA, which hanged folks from east tennessee who stood up to their (confederate) govt, did not share your opinion. All govts make distinctions between legitimate rebellions (those which formed themselves) and illegitimate ones (those against themselves). In the USA, the american revolution is a legitimate, revered rebellion. Secession is an illegitimate, traitorous rebellion. Now the CSA of course did not think so. I am not a confederate citizen however, so I will not concern myself with what the CSA thought. I will continue to hold that Lincoln was the heir of the founding fathers, not Jeff Davis.

As for ancestral manors, I have no problem with Jeff davis being honored at any ancestral manor of his.

As for Lord Fairfax, he was not a traitor. Where did I mention slavery? I dont like that the CSA seceded to protect slavery, but to impugn a man who lived when slavery was legal and almost universally accepted seems anachronistic, to say the least.

Of course it's considered treason because they lost. If they had won, then they'd be called patriots

Oh so it's wrong to call someone a racists because they were being a racists when racism was universally accepted? A racist is a racist is a racist...

[slowlane3]

Originally Posted by brooklynborndad

if its all about history, why are there no memorials in Virginia to THIS civil war general, who was actually BORN in virginia

George Henry Thomas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Is it because Richmond considered him a traitor?

It's the same way with General Winfield Scott, who was born in Dinwiddie (Petersburg) Virginia and commanded the entire Union Army or something.
VA finally did put up a historical marker for him, recently.

[brooklynborndad]

Originally Posted by oneasterisk

Oh so it's wrong to call someone a racists because they were being a racists when racism was universally accepted? A racist is a racist is a racist...

You can call Lord Fairfax whatever you want. I prefer to take into account the beliefs of the time in judging someone. I find it hard say, to condemn a 14th century feudal lord for not supporting universal suffrage (if they were in other respects a good person) but I would certainly have issues with a 20th c politician who opposed it.

[slowlane3]

Confederate Army Generals honored in NoVA:

Pickett Street, Lee Street, and Beauregard Streets in Alexandria
Lee Highway (US 29) in Arlington and Fairfax
Lee District Park, in north Springfield
Lee election district (Mount Vernon area)
Lee High School (Springfield)
Washington & Lee High School (Arlington)
JEB Stuart High School (Falls Church)