Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Location: Chapel Hill, NC, formerly NoVA and Phila
9,777 posts, read 15,786,780 times
Reputation: 10886
Advertisements
Does anyone remember the bumper stickers from about 15(?) years ago in Loudoun County against having sprawl come to their county? They said, "Don't Fairfax Loudoun."
Does anyone remember the bumper stickers from about 15(?) years ago in Loudoun County against having sprawl come to their county? They said, "Don't Fairfax Loudoun."
I think those were from the late 80s. I distinctly recall seeing them when I had a short-term consulting job in DC in the fall of 1987.
I think those were from the late 80s. I distinctly recall seeing them when I had a short-term consulting job in DC in the fall of 1987.
That would make sense, that was more less when the started talking about building Cascades and a few of the other larger developments. I think they talked about Cascades for almost a decade before it really got underway.
Does anyone remember the bumper stickers from about 15(?) years ago in Loudoun County against having sprawl come to their county? They said, "Don't Fairfax Loudoun."
Funny you would mention that.. I actually saw one a few weeks ago on a 1980's model chevy cavalier that was being driven by a lady probably in her late 80's. The car was immaculate by the way and sort of brought a little tear in my eye being that my mom had one when I was growing up. LOL
Yeah, different strokes for different folks. Even so, you won't convince me that a poster who claims not to be at all pretentious and then goes out of his or her way repeatedly to put down an area where hard-working families go about their business as "ugly," "soulless" and "charmless" doesn't have more than a few passive-aggressive leanings. If you can't find anything at all to like in an area like Ashburn that is well-tended and filled with a diverse group of people who are responsible citizens, you probably aren't trying very hard. And it only takes a sentence or two to express a preference for an area with a greater range of architectural styles.
Moderator Cut
I perfectly explained my opinion of the looks of the area, and why I do not favor it. I did not say I hate it for what it is, I highly dislike how it looks...its sterility...etc. I believe I also stated I was glad to have it in the county though as it ads to the diversity of the entire county. I just don't want that to spread further out. They've built out enough, now its time to get smart with the population center and increase its density in stead of sprawling it out. The whole D.C. area is enough like LA already with its sprawl anyway. Its time to stop going out and start growing smarter and / or going UP.
I visit those places, reasonably regularly as I have friends there. I stated more than once there is nothing overtly wrong with them to me other than the sterile homogenous looks. They love living there and find beauty in it, and some of them even recognise how sterile it is but sacrifice that because its a nice/ safe place that is close to work for them. Even in its sterility I can find beauty here and there. I just would not choose to live in it. So that makes me pretentious? If that makes me pretentious than your post to me makes you narrow minded and unwilling to accept someone else' opinion. Really, you must need to put someone else down to feel better about yourself. Low self esteem much?
I don't look down on anyone that chooses to live in those places, its their choice and if it makes them happy more power to them. I stated THAT before too, but I digress it seems reading comprehension is not your strong suit. I'm not sure you even understand that word either. Usually it would imply you look down on others / feel you are better...blah blah blah. Not the case for me at all. I'm no better nor no worse than any other person no matter where they live. OTOH it seems like you feel superior by calling someone else' opinion pretentious on an internet message board. Hmm... go figure.
FWIW I seem to run into FAR more "pretentious" people speeding in their 100,000 dollar cars coming out this way than vice versa, who are often extremely rude and think everyone else past Leesburg is lower crust and that they are better than everyone else. God forbid you do the speed limit of your get tailgated by some d'bag in his 100,000 dollar convertible because his agenda is so incredibly important. If I was not a law abiding citizen... sometimes Id love to make one of those eat the back of my jeep.
If you want to scream about pretentiousness, well it works both ways (and usually alot more the other way) but then again, it seems like you have a hard time understanding things like that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigfoot424
Agree 100%. I personally would not live in Ashburn but it's not because it's ugly. I've lived in a sfh in a pvt area where all the homes are different. I have an acre to spread out. Living in cookie cutter neighborhoods just doesn't appeal to the wife and me. That said. There are some nice looking homes in Ashburn and other areas of Loudoun.
Sure, there are plenty of nice homes there. Its the whole clearing of the land thing, and the look alike strip malls, and some of those nice homes that are repeated every 3rd house, or sometimes right next door, esp in the cases of the TH's that I really dislike. It just reminds me of stepford wives or something similar, where it all looks alike/ the same...etc. In a way, some of it is almost like just modernised soviet housing blocks where the buildings and / or town/ row homes all look alike, same color, same plantings...etc. I remember seeing photos of the old soviet union when I was a kid in the 80s and thinking how sad it seemed that everyone lived in what looked like the same thing, row after row, street after street, mile after mile. Some places in this country have ended up looking that way, and some places in eastern Loudoun remind me of this. Perhaps that is part of the reason I find it visually not very attractive. That, and what they have to do to the beautiful (well what once was beautiful) country side to achieve the current result that I also dislike.
Last edited by FindingZen; 11-18-2011 at 03:41 PM..
Reason: watch the (self-edited) profanity
While I prefer not to debate about the argument of "beauty" versus "ugly" (I would not call Ashburn ugly), I do agree that these areas are homogenous and sterile. To me, stripped land with new malls, townhouses, etc. and planted itty bitty trees (that may or may not be native to the county) cannot compare to the rolling hills, mountains, forests, and rivers of the county. What do I compare that to? Winchester, where I live right now (after living in Loudoun Co for 20 yrs).
Although I do not know what the quibbling is about . . . we've gone through this on this forum over and over and over, and although we all don't agree, we do agree that Loudoun County has quite a range of areas to choose from -- historic cities, suburbia, rural/farmland, etc. and that people choose where they live for their own reasons.
Although I, too dread seeing the sprawl move further west. Traffic already gets coagulated outside/west of Leesburg . I am hoping that the mountains will halt some of this and not/or have little affect on those of us "on the other side of the mountain".
Yeah, to me a diversified place to live includes diversified architecture.
100% agree. Maybe "ugly" is not the correct word for me to use. Or maybe I should say in stead.... "that I find ugly" or "personally unattractive", instead of just ugly. I suppose its not overtly "ugly" in its own right no. A garbage dump would be "ugly" (unless you were a seagull or pigeon or mouse or rat of course...) so no, I don't think any of those places resemble a garbage dump at all in the least. Hopefully now this clarification will help spell it out more clearly to those who want to slap nice little names on me or others.
100% agree. Maybe "ugly" is not the correct word for me to use. Or maybe I should say in stead.... "that I find ugly" or "personally unattractive", instead of just ugly. I suppose its not overtly "ugly" in its own right no. A garbage dump would be "ugly" (unless you were a seagull or pigeon or mouse or rat of course...) so no, I don't think any of those places resemble a garbage dump at all in the least. Hopefully now this clarification will help spell it out more clearly to those who want to slap nice little names on me or others.
Actually, this morning I was driving by a new townhouse development outside of Leesburg (along Battlefield Pkway) and thought about this post. And, yeah, the stripped forests and bony trees, look-alike-townhouses that seemed to go on and on and on and on . . . and faux hills with newly-planted grass seeds (the remnants of dirt dug to make foundations which has now compromised the underpinnings of newer bldgs and the earth) did in fact, remind me of something ugly.
The townhouses are not themselves ugly. The grass is not ugly. The bricks are not ugly. The scrawny trees are not ugly (well, a little). I guess the whole process of what has happened, to me, is well . . . . ugly.
Jeesh, is ANYONE allowed to have a G-DAMNED opinion on here without being called names?
I perfectly explained my opinion of the looks of the area, and why I do not favor it. I did not say I hate it for what it is, I highly dislike how it looks...its sterility...etc. I believe I also stated I was glad to have it in the county though as it ads to the diversity of the entire county. I just don't want that to spread further out. They've built out enough, now its time to get smart with the population center and increase its density in stead of sprawling it out. The whole D.C. area is enough like LA already with its sprawl anyway. Its time to stop going out and start growing smarter and / or going UP.
I visit those places, reasonably regularly as I have friends there. I stated more than once there is nothing overtly wrong with them to me other than the sterile homogenous looks. They love living there and find beauty in it, and some of them even recognise how sterile it is but sacrifice that because its a nice/ safe place that is close to work for them. Even in its sterility I can find beauty here and there. I just would not choose to live in it. So that makes me pretentious? If that makes me pretentious than your post to me makes you narrow minded and unwilling to accept someone else' opinion. Really, you must need to put someone else down to feel better about yourself. Low self esteem much?
I don't look down on anyone that chooses to live in those places, its their choice and if it makes them happy more power to them. I stated THAT before too, but I digress it seems reading comprehension is not your strong suit. I'm not sure you even understand that word either. Usually it would imply you look down on others / feel you are better...blah blah blah. Not the case for me at all. I'm no better nor no worse than any other person no matter where they live. OTOH it seems like you feel superior by calling someone else' opinion pretentious on an internet message board. Hmm... go figure.
FWIW I seem to run into FAR more "pretentious" people speeding in their 100,000 dollar cars coming out this way than vice versa, who are often extremely rude and think everyone else past Leesburg is lower crust and that they are better than everyone else. God forbid you do the speed limit of your get tailgated by some d'bag in his 100,000 dollar convertible because his agenda is so incredibly important. If I was not a law abiding citizen... sometimes Id love to make one of those eat the back of my jeep.
If you want to scream about pretentiousness, well it works both ways (and usually alot more the other way) but then again, it seems like you have a hard time understanding things like that.
Sure, there are plenty of nice homes there. Its the whole clearing of the land thing, and the look alike strip malls, and some of those nice homes that are repeated every 3rd house, or sometimes right next door, esp in the cases of the TH's that I really dislike. It just reminds me of stepford wives or something similar, where it all looks alike/ the same...etc. In a way, some of it is almost like just modernised soviet housing blocks where the buildings and / or town/ row homes all look alike, same color, same plantings...etc. I remember seeing photos of the old soviet union when I was a kid in the 80s and thinking how sad it seemed that everyone lived in what looked like the same thing, row after row, street after street, mile after mile. Some places in this country have ended up looking that way, and some places in eastern Loudoun remind me of this. Perhaps that is part of the reason I find it visually not very attractive. That, and what they have to do to the beautiful (well what once was beautiful) country side to achieve the current result that I also dislike.
You're entitled to your opinion and I did not intend to imply otherwise. I do occasionally get tired of people deciding how others should live or pushing their housing choices on others under the guise of expressing their aesthetic preferences. One ought to be able to promote a debate about local residential zoning and land use without trashing existing communities. But, if you want to add "sterile" and Soviet-era to "ugly," "soulless," and "charmless," go ahead. Just don't expect everyone to agree with no questions asked.
Im trying to avoid LC threads, but I think I can add something that lowers the temp, maybe
There are at several different issues here, and as JEB says, they dont always correlate.
1. The planning questions relating to density - rural land, environmental issues, financial impacts of different development patterns, etc, etc. While discussions of those can get heated, I think it should be possible to discuss them, and they are essential to determining the desirability of different public policy options
2. The purely aesthetic impact of generally unplanned development - like certain parts of where I live in Annandale, where a combination of helter skelter unplanned development of shopping centers, roads built purely to move vehicles with little thought to their aesthetics, even the placement of overhead power lines, etc, add up to something I think most folks would call unattractive. Granted its aesthetics, and I suppose we would never achieve unanamity, but I think enough consensus could be reached, that the aesthetic benefits of redevelopment could be factored in
3. The aesthetics of particular housing styles or particular houses. While I think it IS possible to have an intelligent discussion of aesthetics that transcends gut reactions - as one can have intelligent discussions of the aesthetics of music, or literature, or wine, so one can have such discussions of buildings - experience shows that its very difficult to have such discussions on the internet without it devolving into something very personal. Maybe on an architecture site like Archinect - but not in a place people come to focused on their pride in their homes and communities. Anyway, for the most part I think its difficult to make THIS kind of aesthetic issue a subject for policy - so its not really necessary to have a community discourse on it.
4. The broad issue of homogeneity of housing styles. I think that whole issue is fairly complex - there are places such homogeneity works and places it does not, and I dont think the simple existence of it necessarily proves anything.
edit - note well - the aesthetic concerns i mentioned in point 2 above are, AFAICT, uncommon in planned communities like Ashburn. They are more typical of somewhat older suburban areas - though of course planned communities designed to specifically avoid those things, like Columbia and Reston, are older than that.
Last edited by brooklynborndad; 11-14-2011 at 03:01 PM..
100% agree. Maybe "ugly" is not the correct word for me to use. Or maybe I should say in stead.... "that I find ugly" or "personally unattractive", instead of just ugly. I suppose its not overtly "ugly" in its own right no. A garbage dump would be "ugly" (unless you were a seagull or pigeon or mouse or rat of course...) so no, I don't think any of those places resemble a garbage dump at all in the least.
Thanks for letting us know that Ashburn is more attractive than a garbage dump. But, yes, the way you put it above would have been a much better start.
Quote:
Hopefully now this clarification will help spell it out more clearly to those who want to slap nice little names on me or others.
And yet, you just had to throw in a little attitude there, didn't you?
Moderator Cut
Quote:
If that makes me pretentious than your post to me makes you narrow minded and unwilling to accept someone else' opinion.
I don't have to accept your opinion any more than I have to accept blanket statements like all Indian people are unattractive or all colonials are stupid looking.
As for being narrow-minded, you may recall I like the looks of both western and eastern Loudoun. You call the latter "ugly" (and now a string of other unpleasant terms). Who is the narrow-minded one?
Quote:
Really, you must need to put someone else down to feel better about yourself. Low self esteem much?
Why don't you look up the term "projection"?
Quote:
FWIW I seem to run into FAR more "pretentious" people speeding in their 100,000 dollar cars coming out this way than vice versa, who are often extremely rude and think everyone else past Leesburg is lower crust and that they are better than everyone else. God forbid you do the speed limit of your get tailgated by some d'bag in his 100,000 dollar convertible because his agenda is so incredibly important. If I was not a law abiding citizen... sometimes Id love to make one of those eat the back of my jeep.
Your preoccupation seems to stretch beyond that of aesthetics. Words like "100,000 dollar cars," "rude," "lower crust," "d'bag in his $100,000 dollar convertible," "eat the back of my jeep" tell me that this isn't about nature preservation or architecture, but of money -- someone having more of it than you do.
Moderator Cut
Quote:
It just reminds me of stepford wives or something similar, where it all looks alike/ the same...etc. In a way, some of it is almost like just modernised soviet housing blocks where the buildings and / or town/ row homes all look alike, same color, same plantings...etc. I remember seeing photos of the old soviet union when I was a kid in the 80s and thinking how sad it seemed that everyone lived in what looked like the same thing, row after row, street after street, mile after mile. Some places in this country have ended up looking that way, and some places in eastern Loudoun remind me of this.
I happen to have personal knowledge of actual, real life centrally planned socialist buildings, as in, I lived in one.
Again, Ashburn looks nothing like such a place. You don't have to take my word for it. Here is a typical example:
Here is a typical photo of townhouses in eastern Loudoun (Brambleton, I think):
Let me tell you, in the Soviet era, homes like these in Ashburn would have been for the favored elites -- that's if they were available at all. And I am not even talking about much bigger, more expensive SFH with 1/4 or 1/2 acres in Ashburn, which would have been beyond even fantasy. They would have been palaces for the party chairman, only filled with appliances that actually work.
Last edited by FindingZen; 11-18-2011 at 03:40 PM..
Reason: removed personal attacks and the quotes that inspired them
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
