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Old 02-04-2013, 06:40 PM
 
244 posts, read 482,060 times
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Most HOAs I've dealt with a pretty laid back. The picky ones can be a real pain in the ass, however. I find that smaller HOAs tend to be more difficult to deal with. Ones with large planned communities and run by a management company are much better.

HOAs are a double edged sword. I feel ultimately they are a great deal for everyone: the county gets to offload the maintenance of roads and common areas, the community can have some great shared features like pools, ball courts, fitness trails, and home owners have the assurance that they won't wake up with a pink house in the neighborhood.
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Old 02-04-2013, 06:56 PM
 
3,557 posts, read 3,450,085 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caladium View Post
Well, nobody is forcing you to live there. Move to a neighborhood without one.
You don't have to be in a union to work somewhere, why should the OP have to belong to a group that tells him what to do on his private property if he doesn't want to.
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Old 02-04-2013, 07:50 PM
 
7,934 posts, read 9,659,084 times
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Originally Posted by Grsz11 View Post
You don't have to be in a union to work somewhere, why should the OP have to belong to a group that tells him what to do on his private property if he doesn't want to.
This is a rather ridiculous argument. No, you don't have to be in a union to work somewhere, but you do have to be in a union to work on a job that is only hiring union.

Similarly, you don't have to deal with a HOA to live somewhere, but you do have to deal with one if you choose to live in an HOA neighborhood.

If you don't like it, don't live there.
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Old 02-04-2013, 08:51 PM
 
2,612 posts, read 4,757,888 times
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Originally Posted by Bigfoot424 View Post
Move to a neighborhood without one. You'll be wishing for one after some time. Multiple broken down cars in a driveway. Cars with dead tags and not running sitting on the road. Uncut grass. peeling paint on the house. HOA's can be a PITA at times but they are also a necessary evil at times.
We don't have one and our neighborhood is very nice. I think it's one of the main selling points, too. Lots of people hate HOAs.
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Old 02-04-2013, 10:20 PM
 
5,048 posts, read 6,918,047 times
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Originally Posted by Ben 'n Jen View Post
As someone who moved here a year ago, I'll tell all of you "well move someplace else" types that HOAs are so widespread in NOVA that there aren't many places without one. Believe me, if it were up to us, we'd have moved to the Gulf Coast and been on the water without 7 million people around us, but Uncle Sam said "Go to DC young man", so here we are. I've lived in 7 different states and I've never seen so many HOAs.

We've had issues with our association as well. My 20 ft wide, 8 inch high vegetable garden in my backyard was deemed 'innappropriate' and I was told to remove it. Our teens were told they couldn't have their graduation party at the clubhouse we pay for, even though several of us parents said we would chaperone the party. So...how do you change it? Run for office and get rid of the kooks that are running the board. Me and the pres have been at each other's throats ever since my first meeting. He's totally lost that fact that he works for the residents and he pushes his own agenda. I've called him out on this many times in meetings and the residents are getting a clue that this guy needs to go. 9 yrs as pres is long enough. I guess since he doesn't work, he can spend all of his time thinking of ways to get everyone in line.

So get on the board. that's how you can make a difference. Campaign and promise to represent the residents. Don't act like some sort of 2-bit dictator and push your own agenda.
I hear ya. And then there's the economy and how much one would recoup if one were to sell. So the ol' move away is not effective. We have also had the true narcissists and bobble heads. And the board members who are on for decades because their individual areas votes them in every time. And the staggered elections the declarations have so people's terms end at different times. Makes it harder to collect all the good guys and women. As soon as you vote in a good one, one of the last election's good ones is tired of all the drama and leaves when his term is up.
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Old 02-05-2013, 02:49 AM
 
Location: Virginia-Shenandoah Valley
6,561 posts, read 10,857,077 times
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Originally Posted by marie5v View Post
We don't have one and our neighborhood is very nice. I think it's one of the main selling points, too. Lots of people hate HOAs.
My neighborhood (10 homes) is the same. We have a HOA for the road upkeep only. We do have one home where the outside is pathetic looking with a couple of abandoned cars sitting in the yard. We have zero authority to make them clean up. They are good people but they've let the outside get pretty bad.
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Old 02-05-2013, 07:59 AM
 
244 posts, read 482,060 times
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Originally Posted by Grsz11 View Post
You don't have to be in a union to work somewhere, why should the OP have to belong to a group that tells him what to do on his private property if he doesn't want to.
That's a pretty ridiculous argument. Unions and HOAs are not the same. A Union doesn't own any part of a business that it does collective bargaining with. HOAs actually have an ownership interest in the rights granted to it by the HOA documents. It owns the common areas, it owns the facilities, it owns the rights to collect assessments on properties within the community. When you buy a piece of property that's subject to a HOA, the bundle of property rights you are receiving is without those rights that have been passed to the HOA. So whereas Unions have no legal claim to exclude non-union workers and therefore resort to legalized extortion, HOAs have legal and very real basis for enforcing their by-laws on those properties that have granted such rights in perpetuity to the HOA.
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Old 02-05-2013, 08:13 AM
 
Location: The Port City is rising.
8,777 posts, read 10,684,964 times
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Originally Posted by NovaOne View Post
That's a pretty ridiculous argument. Unions and HOAs are not the same. A Union doesn't own any part of a business that it does collective bargaining with. HOAs actually have an ownership interest in the rights granted to it by the HOA documents. It owns the common areas, it owns the facilities, it owns the rights to collect assessments on properties within the community. When you buy a piece of property that's subject to a HOA, the bundle of property rights you are receiving is without those rights that have been passed to the HOA. So whereas Unions have no legal claim to exclude non-union workers and therefore resort to legalized extortion, HOAs have legal and very real basis for enforcing their by-laws on those properties that have granted such rights in perpetuity to the HOA.

unions COULD have such a right written in a contract. Closed shop contracts however are illegal under federal law, and agency shop contracts, which are legal under federal law, are banned here in Virginia, which is a "right to work" state. Our legislature does not believe that the ability to seek work elsewhere is sufficient alternative to banning agency shop contracts. Whatever it is that makes banning agency shop contracts a necessity to protect the "right to work" would seem to also justify limits on what HOA's can do.
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Old 02-05-2013, 08:31 AM
 
244 posts, read 482,060 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brooklynborndad View Post
unions COULD have such a right written in a contract. Closed shop contracts however are illegal under federal law, and agency shop contracts, which are legal under federal law, are banned here in Virginia, which is a "right to work" state. Our legislature does not believe that the ability to seek work elsewhere is sufficient alternative to banning agency shop contracts. Whatever it is that makes banning agency shop contracts a necessity to protect the "right to work" would seem to also justify limits on what HOA's can do.
The critical difference I am referring to is that Union contracts are civil agreements that the federal government has artificially endowed with special legal status whereas property rights are inherent to the concept of property ownership. So where as it is wrong or at least arguable regarding the existence of exclusionary union-only contracts, there is no question or ambiguity as to the rights of a person or a HOA who owns real property. You therefore can't draw an equation between union contracts and property rights because there is no basis for it.
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Old 02-05-2013, 09:05 AM
 
Location: The Port City is rising.
8,777 posts, read 10,684,964 times
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Originally Posted by NovaOne View Post
The critical difference I am referring to is that Union contracts are civil agreements that the federal government has artificially endowed with special legal status whereas property rights are inherent to the concept of property ownership. So where as it is wrong or at least arguable regarding the existence of exclusionary union-only contracts, there is no question or ambiguity as to the rights of a person or a HOA who owns real property. You therefore can't draw an equation between union contracts and property rights because there is no basis for it.

The right to contract goes way back in the common law, and is law in every state of the union - its not something that comes from federal law. Its hard to imagine capitalism without the ability to make a contract. Union contracts are no different from any other contract in that respect.

It is true that the right to contract is to some degree artificial - its possible to have a society without contracts. Its also, by the same token, possible to have a society with very limited property rights. Prior to 1400 or so fee simple property ownership in england and other western societies was rare, and "property" had all kinds of encumbrances. Its just as easy to imagine a functioning society in which the rights of property owners to voluntarily form associations was limited in some way, as it is to imagine a society in which rights to contract are limited.
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