Fairfax County Residents Paying for Luxury Items for Low-Income Residents (for sale, real estate)

[pvnova]

Originally Posted by chariega

Because McLean and Great Falls are clearly little slices of heaven *gasp* certainly a lowly family making between 50-100k shouldn't have access to such extravagance--even if it is in the form of a County-purchased, contractor-grade "high-end" condo

Yes, those are slices of heaven compared to subsidized-housing-infested places like Reston and Herndon. With all this talk about 50-100K, somehow schools in the districts with subsidized housing turn out to be 50+% free lunch (with top limits of 16K to 29K for families of 2 to 5 respectively). See McNair Elementary or Dogwood Elementary for examples. With learning environment and safety reflecting the demographics. No wonder people caring about education, environment and safety of their children, those same 50K-100K, run as far as Purceville.

[pvnova]

Originally Posted by stpickrell

The market will provide, man! You gotta have faith in the market!

No faith necessary. Free market (meaning "made free from fraudulent and fear-based transactions by proper regulation and oversight") always did provide those who earned and ready to pay the price, and there is in indication it's going to change.

[dkf747]

Originally Posted by pvnova

No faith necessary. Free market (meaning "made free from fraudulent and fear-based transactions by proper regulation and oversight") always did provide those who earned and ready to pay the price....

...and it doesn't provide for those who can't earn as much.

[Yankeesfan]

Furor Over 'Luxury Subsidized Housing' in Fairfax County - Fairfax Station, VA Patch

[FindingZen]

IMO:

There's probably something to be said about those housing-subsidized residents who may not necessarily be doing their best to find employment.

On the other hand, for those who are gainfully employed but work in lower-paying positions (e.g. restaurants, retail), they have to live somewhere. If left solely to market forces, many of these people may be commuting from way out in Prince William County or across the river in Prince Georges County. Or perhaps they might not be here at all, causing would-be managers to scratch their heads, wondering why "no one wants to work". (I saw a similar disconnect happen in Philly with prospective inner-city service workers and the opportunities in far-flung, transit-challenged 'burbs.)

I think that dispersing said residents across the county instead of concentrating them in one area is a sound idea. I also think that there should be some sort of "code of conduct" agreement (if there isn't one already) that those subsidized residents must adhere to so that they are not abusing their privileges.

[CAVA1990]

Originally Posted by Tone509

On the other hand, for those who are gainfully employed but work in lower-paying positions (e.g. restaurants, retail), they have to live somewhere. If left solely to market forces, many of these people may be commuting from way out in Prince William County or across the river in Prince Georges County. Or perhaps they might not be here at all, causing would-be managers to scratch their heads, wondering why "no one wants to work". (I saw a similar disconnect happen in Philly with prospective inner-city service workers and the opportunities in far-flung, transit-challenged 'burbs.)

God forbid they be forced by the labor market to pay a higher living wage. I believe like my more conservative friends that the best social welfare program is a decent paycheck.

[saganista]

Originally Posted by pvnova

Your theories are all well, only the practice (like going from $147/barrel in July'08 to $30/barrel in February'09) tells the different story. With little real change in demand, basically just on the anticipation of falling demand, the price radically fell.

Do you contend that these were actually market-demand effects? The average price per barrel of crude in August 2007 was around $64. In August 2009, it was around $63. In between, something strange happened. What was it? Investors fleeing from suddenly scary mortgage-backed securities markets discovered (with some help from the folks at Goldman Sachs) that good money could still be made at relatively low risk in the markets for oil futures contracts. As the result, the share of those markets held by speculators (those holding a position for no purpose other than to resell it) rapidly rose from less than 30% to more than 70%. It turned out of course that the market was too small to accommodate such an influx, and as the pump price of gasoline soared past $4.00 and calls for government action were heard, the speculative market began to shrink and its influence essentially dissipated nearly as fast as it had first appeared.

Originally Posted by pvnova

The price of commodities is driven by the marginal cost of its production at the given demand. And cost of production of most of world's oil is pretty low, as low as $4/barrel in Saudi Arabia (2002 data AFAIR), and can be made even lower if salaries in the industry fall due to falling demand. The problem that the most exotic supply like deep sea wells and shales cost significantly more. Good thing is that they constitute pretty small part of the overall supply. If the policy creates steadily falling demand (as the good policy should), then the market will anticipate it, the use of oil as inflation hedge will disappear, and the total demand will fall below the threshold of costly production methods and/or squeeze out outsized profits and waste (and foreign taxes) out of the industry all over the world. Thus the tax on oil is effectively tax on Saudis, Russians, Venezuelans etc...

Jumbled gibberish not related to the original mistake of not realizing that the price-elasticity of demand for petroleum products is low.

Originally Posted by pvnova

Regarding the ability to reduce demand - it is absolutely possible. There was information a few years ago that just switching US to the same car mix Europeans use would eliminate all US oil imports...

Really? What is this Miracle Mix? Why don't we use it? What actually comes out of the pump across most of Europe is gasoline with about 5% ethanol added. Is the US, pumps dispense gasoline with about 6% ethanol added.

[FindingZen]

We're starting to get a few more off-track, if still respectful conversations. Let's focus on how Fairfax County/NOVA is affected by the original topic.

[CAVA1990]

Part of the reason home prices here are so high is that we have a huge underclass of service workers, many of them recent immigrants, whose low wages keep prices of goods and services relatively low. This allows higher income folks here to spend more on homes. Subsidizing this through things like affordable housing programs only makes the situation worse. If the county and other employers have trouble finding workers because of the cost of housing, pay them more and raise prices and taxes. This will force the price of homes down.

[Lucky★]

The subsidized housing is really an inefficient subsidy for employers. There is no guarantee that the subsidized residents will work in the same area or work at all. Let the employers pay higher wages to their employees who can then commute or live in lower cost “bad areas” or whatever they like. Don’t like to commute or live in older housing? Join the club.