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Old 07-18-2011, 06:45 PM
 
Location: leaving Charlotte, heading to McLean
68 posts, read 169,855 times
Reputation: 21

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I can't wrap my brain around how this happens. I agree with the idea of there being a greater likelihood of leaving a newborn who is rear facing, in a lower profile car seat (meaning it's not as easy to see from the rear view mirror) and asleep - especially when you're sleep deprived. But leaving a 3 year old (I have one and he doesn't stop talking) and then driving home with him in the backseat? The thought makes me sick to my stomach and I can't imagine that there isn't something more going on with this mother.

My Aunt worked for a vet in the Charlotte area who forgot his sleeping newborn in the car and the baby died. He and his wife (she was a medical doctor) split up, he ended up suicidal and hospitalized and ended his practice. So incredibly sad. I can't recall if there were any legal ramifications.
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Old 07-18-2011, 07:11 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC & New York
10,915 posts, read 31,291,560 times
Reputation: 7137
Quote:
Originally Posted by dod236 View Post
"It's a tragic accident, IMO, and can happen to anyone."

Trust me, it cannot happen to anyone, that kid was not a bunch of keys, lunch, or a backpack.
You are entitled to your opinion, but I did not trivialize the loss of a child's life to equate it with keys or a backpack. I respect the sanctity of life, and would never make such a statement.

Rationally, I agree, that it should not happen to anyone that a child can be left in the car, but life is rarely rational. And, this incident is not unique, rather it's a disturbing tragic phenomenon that seems to have originated after my own childhood. I do not believe that any of the parents to whom this occurs were operating on the most rational of bases, either distracted by something, or the aforementioned break in routine, etc.

And, perhaps if it happens once, an intervention is needed, someone to step up and say that they will be the child check buddy, or something like that, where they call one another at a certain time every morning and ask about the children and if they have gone to school, etc. A 30-second phone call that's timed when a child needs to be at school, the child care provider, daycare, grandparents, home from school, etc. could go a long way to preventing another tragic outcome.

Parents have a lot going on in their lives, and adding the responsibility of a job can magnify issues in many areas of life. Nobody likes to think that something can happen to them, the reality is that the people to whom such an incident happens rarely set out thinking that it will happen to them, either. From parents who speed with children in the car because they're running late, to those who take other risks, believing they are in full control, sometimes the unanticipated strikes. All of that can be deemed "reckless" in the light of tragedy, and may be subject to legal punishment, but no punishment can compete with what said parent must live with for the rest of their lives.

That was my point, when I said that it could happen to anybody, not a glib trivialization of human life. It's complacency that something is a non-issue in one's own life that can be a contributing factor, IMO, be it not knowing where the child is 100% of the time, to driving 15mph over the speed limit and weaving in traffic, or running yellow lights at top speed, because one is running late. Acknowledging that one is an imperfect human allows one to step back and see that an unintended negative outcome could result from a routine/change in routine, so one can make plans, institute safeguards, and minimize the risk of anything happening.
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Old 07-19-2011, 03:44 AM
 
Location: Manassas, VA
1,558 posts, read 3,842,814 times
Reputation: 881
I know this woman. All I can say is, I don't know how anyone can forget their child in the backseat of a car...but it happens and it has happened before. This certainly isn't the first time, but it seems that the county prosecutor wants to make an example of her. This was not criminal....she is absolutely devastated....just devastated. Her son's 3rd birthday was on Saturday....I am positive she was not jumping for joy that she had accidentally killed her son. We should all take a lesson from this and realize that sometimes life is not all about working, or making money, or having our child in every activity and moving at such a fast paced....and that sometimes it's good to just slow down and just enjoy it and take time to relax and think about life's real purpose (whatever that may be). Karen Murphy is a mom....a mom who made a grave error...no court can convict her anymore than she has already convicted herself. But, she does have other children who need her....she is still a mom.

And that's all I'll comment on this matter and I can't bear to read anymore of this thread again.
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Old 07-19-2011, 04:45 AM
 
Location: Ohio
2,175 posts, read 9,149,355 times
Reputation: 3961
My wife and I raised 6 kids. We both transported 1 at a time on occasion. I can't even comprehend how a parent could forget there is a child in the car.
We knew where all of our kids where at any given time when they where small.
That was #1 priority. Anything less than that was unforgivable and inexcusable.
I see or hear about this kind of tragedy happening way too often and have a complete failure to understand why it happens.
How can any responsable, loving, caring parent of a small child not know where a small child is?
I just don't understand how that can happen.
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Old 07-19-2011, 06:13 AM
 
Location: DMV
10,125 posts, read 13,936,216 times
Reputation: 3222
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alanboy395 View Post
I also think if a man did this people would be screaming bloody murder for him to get the chair. People always to take it easy on a woman because they see them as defenseless creatures. The at-large public needs to give women what they want; women to be treated as equally as men.
I agree a thousand percent with this part. I don't have a problem with love ones who are just being there and supporting their loved one during a difficult time, but I have a problem with how people are irrationally defending her. I've heard people say "she's innocent until proven guilty" or that "she's a good person". Okay I hear that, but it doesn't change a lot of the facts. For starters, don't sit here and tell me she's innocent until proven guilty when it has already been proven that she did the exact same thing a few months ago. Also if there was anyone else involved in this matter, don't you think that the mother would have called for kidnapping or breaking into her vehicle? She's innocent now under the court of law, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that that is her child and she bares at least some responsibility for what has happened. Do I think she should be charged with murder? Only if the prosecution can prove that this was intentional, but that's going to be tough.

And as far as her being a good person, that's a pet peeve of mine. What difference does it make what kind of person she is? The only thing that matter is did she commit a crime. People who defend her name are blindly looking at this matter without any real logic. It's so interesting how our opinions are formed on people based off perception, when that has absolutely no baring on if she did something wrong or not. There are wonderful people everyday that drive around and get into accidents that either seriously injure or kill others. Should we simply allow them to walk just because they are a good person? I feel really bad for this woman, but I just don't understand how someone can act like this woman doesn't deserve some type of punishment. Who else can you blame for this child dying?
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Old 07-19-2011, 07:27 AM
 
Location: Huntersville/Charlotte, NC and Washington, DC
26,687 posts, read 41,580,902 times
Reputation: 41312
Quote:
Originally Posted by meatkins View Post
I agree a thousand percent with this part. I don't have a problem with love ones who are just being there and supporting their loved one during a difficult time, but I have a problem with how people are irrationally defending her. I've heard people say "she's innocent until proven guilty" or that "she's a good person". Okay I hear that, but it doesn't change a lot of the facts. For starters, don't sit here and tell me she's innocent until proven guilty when it has already been proven that she did the exact same thing a few months ago. Also if there was anyone else involved in this matter, don't you think that the mother would have called for kidnapping or breaking into her vehicle? She's innocent now under the court of law, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that that is her child and she bares at least some responsibility for what has happened. Do I think she should be charged with murder? Only if the prosecution can prove that this was intentional, but that's going to be tough.

And as far as her being a good person, that's a pet peeve of mine. What difference does it make what kind of person she is? The only thing that matter is did she commit a crime. People who defend her name are blindly looking at this matter without any real logic. It's so interesting how our opinions are formed on people based off perception, when that has absolutely no baring on if she did something wrong or not. There are wonderful people everyday that drive around and get into accidents that either seriously injure or kill others. Should we simply allow them to walk just because they are a good person? I feel really bad for this woman, but I just don't understand how someone can act like this woman doesn't deserve some type of punishment. Who else can you blame for this child dying?
Some "good people" do some bad things everyday. I'm sorry but you are responsible for your actions no matter what type of person you are.
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Old 07-19-2011, 07:37 AM
 
159 posts, read 373,293 times
Reputation: 49
As much as it is sad and unbelievable, the fact that this is the seond time she left her kid in the car makes me jump to only TWO conclusions: she may be suffering from some kind of depression and was not aware or she did it intentionally. Don't you also think it's a little odd that someone sits in a car with a dead child in it and doesn't even realize it for a sec and drives back home?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vermonter16 View Post
I know this woman. All I can say is, I don't know how anyone can forget their child in the backseat of a car...but it happens and it has happened before. This certainly isn't the first time, but it seems that the county prosecutor wants to make an example of her. This was not criminal....she is absolutely devastated....just devastated. Her son's 3rd birthday was on Saturday....I am positive she was not jumping for joy that she had accidentally killed her son. We should all take a lesson from this and realize that sometimes life is not all about working, or making money, or having our child in every activity and moving at such a fast paced....and that sometimes it's good to just slow down and just enjoy it and take time to relax and think about life's real purpose (whatever that may be). Karen Murphy is a mom....a mom who made a grave error...no court can convict her anymore than she has already convicted herself. But, she does have other children who need her....she is still a mom.

And that's all I'll comment on this matter and I can't bear to read anymore of this thread again.
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Old 07-19-2011, 08:47 AM
 
159 posts, read 373,293 times
Reputation: 49
You are entitled to your opinion, but I did not trivialize the loss of a child's life to equate it with keys or a backpack.......Acknowledging that one is an imperfect human allows one to step back and see that an unintended negative outcome could result from a routine/change in routine, so one can make plans, institute safeguards, and minimize the risk of anything happening.

And you are entitled to yours too. We all acknowledge imperfections, but this? Way out of line....

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwguydc View Post
You are entitled to your opinion, but I did not trivialize the loss of a child's life to equate it with keys or a backpack. I respect the sanctity of life, and would never make such a statement.

Rationally, I agree, that it should not happen to anyone that a child can be left in the car, but life is rarely rational. And, this incident is not unique, rather it's a disturbing tragic phenomenon that seems to have originated after my own childhood. I do not believe that any of the parents to whom this occurs were operating on the most rational of bases, either distracted by something, or the aforementioned break in routine, etc.

And, perhaps if it happens once, an intervention is needed, someone to step up and say that they will be the child check buddy, or something like that, where they call one another at a certain time every morning and ask about the children and if they have gone to school, etc. A 30-second phone call that's timed when a child needs to be at school, the child care provider, daycare, grandparents, home from school, etc. could go a long way to preventing another tragic outcome.

Parents have a lot going on in their lives, and adding the responsibility of a job can magnify issues in many areas of life. Nobody likes to think that something can happen to them, the reality is that the people to whom such an incident happens rarely set out thinking that it will happen to them, either. From parents who speed with children in the car because they're running late, to those who take other risks, believing they are in full control, sometimes the unanticipated strikes. All of that can be deemed "reckless" in the light of tragedy, and may be subject to legal punishment, but no punishment can compete with what said parent must live with for the rest of their lives.

That was my point, when I said that it could happen to anybody, not a glib trivialization of human life. It's complacency that something is a non-issue in one's own life that can be a contributing factor, IMO, be it not knowing where the child is 100% of the time, to driving 15mph over the speed limit and weaving in traffic, or running yellow lights at top speed, because one is running late. Acknowledging that one is an imperfect human allows one to step back and see that an unintended negative outcome could result from a routine/change in routine, so one can make plans, institute safeguards, and minimize the risk of anything happening.
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Old 07-19-2011, 09:02 AM
 
5,121 posts, read 6,782,174 times
Reputation: 5833
I just can't wrap my head around it either. But the fact is it does happen and people who do it seem devastated by it (what parent wouldn't be?)

Like so many others, I look in the rear view at the carseat more times than I can keep track of. It's such an ingrained habit, I look even when my daughter isn't there. And I always look in my backseat before I leave my car--again, it's just habit.

I wonder if it's something to do with the way people think (maybe some people get too focused and forget about the child... I tend to think holistically which is why it's hard for me to comprehend forgetting).

Years ago there were no real seatbelt laws let alone carseats so it was "easier" to notice kids in the car because they were "all over the place". Also today, so many cars are larger (so the backseat in these larger cars are more distant/removed and you have to "look up" into the windows when you step out as opposed to looking down--which seems to be a natural thing for people to do as they leave a car). And windows are tinted and harder to see though. Add to all that carseats for the youngest of children face the rear (and they are recommending it even longer now) so it's like kids are "tucked away" in the car. I am not saying these things make safety worse--but they could be contributing to this tragic phenomena.

Again, I just can't wrap my head around it either--but as much as it happens, there's got to be a reason or reasons. As for this case in particular, I can honestly say most of what I've heard about it is hearsay--so I can't make a judgment about what happened.
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Old 07-19-2011, 10:52 AM
 
Location: Bristow, VA
30 posts, read 55,561 times
Reputation: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by meatkins View Post
I agree a thousand percent with this part. I don't have a problem with love ones who are just being there and supporting their loved one during a difficult time, but I have a problem with how people are irrationally defending her. I've heard people say "she's innocent until proven guilty" or that "she's a good person". Okay I hear that, but it doesn't change a lot of the facts. For starters, don't sit here and tell me she's innocent until proven guilty when it has already been proven that she did the exact same thing a few months ago. Also if there was anyone else involved in this matter, don't you think that the mother would have called for kidnapping or breaking into her vehicle? She's innocent now under the court of law, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that that is her child and she bares at least some responsibility for what has happened. Do I think she should be charged with murder? Only if the prosecution can prove that this was intentional, but that's going to be tough.

And as far as her being a good person, that's a pet peeve of mine. What difference does it make what kind of person she is? The only thing that matter is did she commit a crime. People who defend her name are blindly looking at this matter without any real logic. It's so interesting how our opinions are formed on people based off perception, when that has absolutely no baring on if she did something wrong or not. There are wonderful people everyday that drive around and get into accidents that either seriously injure or kill others. Should we simply allow them to walk just because they are a good person? I feel really bad for this woman, but I just don't understand how someone can act like this woman doesn't deserve some type of punishment. Who else can you blame for this child dying?
These are my sentiments as well. You are a "good person" until you are not. I think to try to rationalize leniency by saying that "good people can do this" is missing the whole point of justice. Did it rise to murder? We'll see. Perhaps it will be reduced to involuntary manslaughter or something. There is a lot that's going to come out in the trial, to be sure.

Personally, I can't fathom my wife or I, or any other engaged parent doing this for more than an "oops" moment when getting out of the car. Your child is not a purse, phone, or any other object to be posessed and then sometimes forgotten or lost for 8 hours. Maybe that's the core problem - to some people their children are just that. Just saying.
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