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Old 01-03-2012, 01:58 PM
 
92 posts, read 168,386 times
Reputation: 73

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEB77 View Post
I would think that most people moving to Reston would understand that, by design, it's more racially and economically diverse than most places in the DC area and that calling low-income residents "lowlifes" just reveals their own lack of decency. Maybe not.
I would think that someone with basic common sense would understand that lowlifes are not lowlifes because of their income but because of their behavior. Maybe not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEB77 View Post
You could bulldoze Lake Anne Plaza and build new apartments there that would fit in comfortably in Clarendon (there are a number of them already), but that would gut Reston's historic core.
I did not say Lake Anne Plaza should be bulldozed. The nearby shabby apartments are another matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEB77 View Post
If you really live there, and actually care about the quality of life around Lake Anne, why not get involved in the ongoing efforts to renovate it, rather than just revel in saying harsh things about other residents?
I do not revel in saying that scummy-looking lowlifes loiter in the Plaza. Indeed, I am profoundly sorry that this is the case. Not much I can personally do about it, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEB77 View Post
I've read that Portofino in Italy was the inspiration for Lake Anne Plaza. While that may been too ambitious a model, the point remains that a primary goal was to create a gathering spot where residents could come and relax. If Hispanics do this, though, you think it's OK to call them "loitering lowlifes." Just wondering if you'd use the same language if it was some other group.
It wouldn't surprise me at all to learn that immigrant lowlifes are making Portofino uninhabitable (or at least very unpleasant) for the Italian residents just as immigrant lowlifes are having the same effect on its Reston counterpart. And part of the reason for that is people like you who happily facilitate the collapse of social order!

"Come and relax" is not quite the same thing as "loiter, harass residents, and smoke around children." This thread has gone on for many pages now and you still don't get it. This is not about the race or income of the lowlifes, it is about their behavior. I'd have exactly the same problem if Lake Anne Plaza became a gathering place for white trash yahoos. So would you, except in that case you'd probably at least be honest about it instead of lifting up your skirts and shrieking "racism!"

 
Old 01-03-2012, 01:59 PM
 
92 posts, read 168,386 times
Reputation: 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlingtonian View Post
Look, I happen to have a college degree too. But we need to get past this fetishization of higher education; a degree doesn't make you smarter, classier, more law-abiding, or more productive than anyone else. Hopefully it makes you more knowledgeable, but that's it.
And you choose to live and raise your children amidst the uneducated?

No, I didn't think so.
 
Old 01-03-2012, 02:03 PM
 
Location: New-Dentist Colony
5,738 posts, read 8,943,215 times
Reputation: 3857
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lehuster View Post
And you choose to live and raise your children amidst the uneducated?

No, I didn't think so.
Believe it or not, we didn't go door to door asking for people's resumes before we bought our house.
 
Old 01-03-2012, 02:13 PM
 
5,071 posts, read 8,618,430 times
Reputation: 2722
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lehuster View Post
"Come and relax" is not quite the same thing as "loiter, harass residents, and smoke around children." This thread has gone on for many pages now and you still don't get it. This is not about the race or income of the lowlifes, it is about their behavior. I'd have exactly the same problem if Lake Anne Plaza became a gathering place for white trash yahoos. So would you, except in that case you'd probably at least be honest about it instead of lifting up your skirts and shrieking "racism!"
Your posts have not simply focused on behavior, but also on background and appearance, with negative references to "Latinos," "scummy-looking immigrants," "scummy-looking lowlifes," and "loitering Hispanics."

It's not a question about whether the group that you (or BMOCCC) encountered in or near the small, concrete area on Lake Anne Plaza reserved to children should have extinguished their cigarettes and/or moved, whether pursuant to RA policy or simply as a matter of courtesy. Everyone seems to agree on that. It's whether that minor incident justifies your race-baiting or efforts to correlate that incident to other things that are largely unrelated.

Those types of efforts - on your part - aren't things that I associate with Reston (either its master plan or the views of most of its current residents). It does indeed seem that you'd be happier somewhere else.

Last edited by JD984; 01-03-2012 at 02:33 PM..
 
Old 01-03-2012, 02:27 PM
 
Location: The Port City is rising.
8,775 posts, read 10,677,612 times
Reputation: 2498
im willing to bet that when lake anne was built, smoking around kids was not considered something lowlife.

How times have changed.
 
Old 01-03-2012, 02:29 PM
 
813 posts, read 1,105,743 times
Reputation: 1760
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlingtonian View Post
He (Jesus) was also low-income, basically a transient, and frequently in trouble with the law! Probably not a smoker, though.

OK, slightly off topic and not an original by me, but speaking of Jesus, I can't resist the following:

Three proofs that JESUS WAS MEXICAN:
1. His first name was Jesus
2. He was bilingual
3. He was always being harassed by the authorities

Equally good arguments that JESUS WAS BLACK
1. He called everybody "brother"
2. He liked Gospel
3. He couldn't get a fair trial

But then there were equally good arguments that JESUS WAS JEWISH
1. He went into His Father's business
2. He lived at home until he was 33
3. He was sure his Mother was a virgin, and his mother was sure he was
God.

But then there were equally good arguments that JESUS WAS ITALIAN
1. He talked with his hands
2. He had wine with every meal
3. He used olive oil

But then there were equally good arguments that JESUS WAS A CALIFORNIAN
1. He never cut his hair
2. He walked around barefoot
3. He started a new religion

But then there were equally good arguments that JESUS WAS IRISH
1. He never got married
2. He was always telling stories
3. He loved green pastures
 
Old 01-03-2012, 02:59 PM
 
Location: Maine
2,010 posts, read 2,701,818 times
Reputation: 2752
ICS67--Thank you! Funny.

Never went to Reston, so I have nothing to add. But this discussion has been very interesting.
 
Old 01-03-2012, 03:07 PM
 
19,183 posts, read 28,336,193 times
Reputation: 4002
I went out looking for "very low income pockets" south and west of Reston earlier today. Still no luck though. Kind of wore me out. I think I'll head over to Lake Anne Plaza, sit me down on one of those concrete thingies, and have me a nice relaxing smoke.
 
Old 01-03-2012, 03:32 PM
 
165 posts, read 173,938 times
Reputation: 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lehuster View Post
And part of the reason for that is people like you who happily facilitate the collapse of social order!
This is my concern too. Neighborhood decay happens because people let it happen. I still can't get across the idea that the area was clearly posted for children. These guys also throw cigarette butts down where children crawl. I guess that's ok too.

I was hoping that someone familiar with the situation would post as I was making guesses as to what was going on, so thank you. This is very bad news. I don't live in Reson and wouldn't bother reporting anything to the HOA because I won't be back to Lake Anne any time soon. However, I do live in the in-between area, between the very rich and very poor, just like Reston. I am hoping that they can hold off the tide of decay. I think that this contradicts Lehuster a bit in that I am concerned about poverty as much as anything else. Poverty lowers property values, lets property go to ruin because people can't afford upkeep, and is almost always associated with bad behavior.

Behavior is very important, though. If you have bad behavior right there as people walk in to Lake Anne, it is going to chase potential buyers and customers off. Also, all you need is one high-profile crime like a rape or murder, and the area is going to gain a stigma.

If I lived in Reston, I would try to find out what's going on. Is there more Section 8 because people can't sell their overpriced houses, are immigrants moving in with friends more because of the sanctuary or the bad economy, etc.?

You can focus on zoning enforcement if too many unrelated people are living together. The HOA could CERTAINLY crack down on bad behavior. If those reading this think that the smoking around children, littering, etc. is just fine, I would add that perception is very important, right or wrong. The scene that I walked into is not one that a potential buyer would savor. Again, I am talking in the context of neighborhood decay, decreasing property values, etc. Also, the Latino market which is near the children's blocks seems to be a major focus of their gathering. A few of the guys that I asked to step away from the play area went into there and did not come out. (They were probably complaining about me.) If this market really is bringing in a bad element, I would try to shut it down, same as I would try to shut down any establishment bringing in a bad element regardless of race.

I think that it was Jeb77 who said that I should not have confronted the individuals and that I should be concerned with gang members and their social norms. I believe that he is right. I have little experience with Hispanics beyond walking past them, buying items from them, etc. When you have children around people, you are immediately forced into a pretty intense social environment. Most, and certainly my, children talk to adults, show them toys, crawl around them, etc. If someone is rude or if my children are doing something wrong, I have to respond to that. I am not going to put up bad behavior towards or from them. Really, the only response if I have to be afraid of gangs or any violence is to keep them away from single Hispanic men entirely. This is called prejudice, of course, but I think that's what I will do next time.

Anyway, Lehuster, I appreciate your courage in posting. It was bothering me to get beat up by so many people and I wasn't going to post any more. We're definitely in trouble in NOVA. I can assure you that Hispanic groups will have no problem joining together as a race to fight efforts that they do not like. Meanwhile, those of us who are just asking for decent behavior can't make much headway at all.
 
Old 01-03-2012, 03:39 PM
 
165 posts, read 173,938 times
Reputation: 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by brooklynborndad View Post
im willing to bet that when lake anne was built, smoking around kids was not considered something lowlife.

How times have changed.
This speaks to the point. If you were Rumplestiltskin, someone had better teach you how to act around women in the workforce or you might lose your job.

We would do immigrants a favor to teach them what is acceptable in our society and what is not. Smoking around children and many others is viewed with great disfavor. Immigrants should learn our cultural values for everyone's good.
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