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(And a person can't be diverse. I think everyone recognizes that if a white person moves to a neighborhood that's mostly not white, then they're increasing the diversity of the neighborhood. It just doesn't happen that often.)
What if someone has one gradparent who is white, black, asian, and native american? I'd call that person diverse!
Seriously. It just get's old after a while. Why the self-segregation? You're a 31 year old physician, do you really think you're that different from white people in your same income level? Seems the same to me
Seriously. It just get's old after a while. Why the self-segregation? You're a 31 year old physician, do you really think you're that different from white people in your same income level? Seems the same to me
Dude. You've completely misread what she wrote. She didn't say that at all. All she said was that she didn't want to be the ONLY black family on the block. Have you ever been the only one of something? I have--in another country. Lemme tell you: Being the "different" one (even on a superficial level) gets old fast.
If she were interested in self-segregation, she wouldn't be considering NOVA.
Are you *really* not getting the difference, or did you just skim over too much of the thread and jump to the wrong conclusion? (I've done that myself before.)
Huge house does not necessarily equal affluence, high education, or high achievement. How many doctors, lawyers, medical researchers, military officers, diplomats, bank presidents, etc., live in those areas you named? And remember, one can buy a pretty massive house in much of the country. You can find some huge houses way out in the middle of Virginia, and they cost maybe $200K.
Looking just at income: City-Data lists the median household income in Mitchellville for 2009 as being just over $102K for all households. Not bad at all. But for 22207 in N. Arlington, the median household income for the same year was almost $148K. Also, Mitchellville, though fairly well off, is very near high-crime areas like Suitland. Which is perhaps one reason why the OP is looking at NOVA and not MD.
No, it's a true statement. To my knowledge, those areas you've named are upper-middle income, not affluent, when compared with the southern end of Bethesda, Great Falls, McLean, parts of N. Arlington, Chevy Chase, Potomac, NW DC, Old Town, etc. The areas in MD that you named may be nice areas, but I would be willing to bet they're not where most of the black doctors live. Remember: Doctors make a LOT of money. If I recall correctly, the average salary for a dermatologist is something like $300K a year.
South Arlington is less diverse than North Arlington. Remember, "diverse" doesn't mean "less white people." It means "variety of different ethnic groups." South Arlington has areas that are mostly white (Penrose), some that are almost all black (Nauck), and some that are nearly all Hispanic (Culmore). At any rate, I don't think the OP cares about that so much; it sounds like she wants to be among several AA families on a given block (or at least not the only such family) and also wants the neighbors to be of similarly high education and achievement.
At any rate, we've just about beat this thread to death. Glad the OP got so much advice and so many opinions.
First off culmore is in falls church not arlington penrose is not mostly white the north side is a historic black neighborhood where Charles drew (the doctor) lived. There are plenty of diverse areas in south Arlington like Arlington heights. Btw halls hill is in 22207 area code
First off culmore is in falls church not arlington penrose is not mostly white the north side is a historic black neighborhood where Charles drew (the doctor) lived. There are plenty of diverse areas in south Arlington like Arlington heights. Btw halls hill is in 22207 area code
I'm thinking Carlingtonian probably meant Carlyn Springs, not Culmore. Carlyn Springs is in South Arlington, and the local ES school has a higher Hispanic enrolllment (over 70%) than the two elementary schools in Fairfax (Bailey's and Glen Forest) that students in the Culmore area attend.
In any event, good luck to the OP with her search in Arlington.
Huge house does not necessarily equal affluence, high education, or high achievement. How many doctors, lawyers, medical researchers, military officers, diplomats, bank presidents, etc., live in those areas you named? And remember, one can buy a pretty massive house in much of the country. You can find some huge houses way out in the middle of Virginia, and they cost maybe $200K.
Oh come on now. Yes so many poor people buy huge 3000 square foot houses. I have not done a head count of everyone's career. This is what I do know. I've spent some time in PG county particularly Upper Marlboro and I saw lots of huge houses occupied by black families.
Yes someone can buy a large house for $200K in a rural part of Virginia but you forget that in other parts of Virginia people make less money than here so that $200K house will still be occupied by someone with a high level career.
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Originally Posted by Carlingtonian
Looking just at income: City-Data lists the median household income in Mitchellville for 2009 as being just over $102K for all households. Not bad at all. But for 22207 in N. Arlington, the median household income for the same year was almost $148K. Also, Mitchellville, though fairly well off, is very near high-crime areas like Suitland. Which is perhaps one reason why the OP is looking at NOVA and not MD.
Suitland and Mitchellville are two very different areas despite not being far from each other. Also historically (I realize that I may bringing black stereotypes into the mix) black households are less likely to segregate themselves based on income. So a wealthy black family is less likely to have reservations about being near a lower income area. Which is why Mitchellville and Suitland are relatively close to each other but worlds apart.
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Originally Posted by Carlingtonian
No, it's a true statement. To my knowledge, those areas you've named are upper-middle income, not affluent, when compared with the southern end of Bethesda, Great Falls, McLean, parts of N. Arlington, Chevy Chase, Potomac, NW DC, Old Town, etc. The areas in MD that you named may be nice areas, but I would be willing to bet they're not where most of the black doctors live. Remember: Doctors make a LOT of money. If I recall correctly, the average salary for a dermatologist is something like $300K a year.
For the most part upper income black families have a tendency to want to live in black neighborhoods. If I recall the point of this thread is to suggest places that a professional black household can live without feeling like oddballs. I've lived in a variety of neighborhoods and can understand the feeling. A black family willing to venture outside this collective norm is a relatively new thing that's a sign of progress. However, I firmly believe that the majority of black doctors and lawyers in the DC area live in PG county NOT Potomac or McLean. Yes the income levels in the aforemention PG county suburbs is lower than Potomac because Upper Marlboro, Mitchellville, Brandywine, etc aren't exclusively wealthy. Regular middle class folks live in these places as well thus bringing down the overall median income.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlingtonian
South Arlington is less diverse than North Arlington. Remember, "diverse" doesn't mean "less white people." It means "variety of different ethnic groups." South Arlington has areas that are mostly white (Penrose), some that are almost all black (Nauck), and some that are nearly all Hispanic (Culmore). At any rate, I don't think the OP cares about that so much; it sounds like she wants to be among several AA families on a given block (or at least not the only such family) and also wants the neighbors to be of similarly high education and achievement.
How is south Arlington less diverse than north Arlington? I've spent plenty of time in both parts of Arlington. I mean just spend some time on Columbia Pike and then compare that to say Wilson Blvd in Clarendon.
Also Nauck is NOT "almost all black". I used to live in Nauck so I think I would know. Nauck is "historically" black with several black churches and a rich African American history. However, as more white families and singles are priced out of north Arlington and more Hispanic families have moved into the neighborhood, it is no longer majority black. Its actually almost equal parts black, white, and Hispanic. Sounds pretty diverse to me. Although if one looks at 2010 census figures Nauck is actually the only part of Arlington that saw a population decrease in the past decade. Arlington as a whole saw a decrease in black households.
The further you move from the district, the more integrated and less racially tense the neighborhoods become.
. . .but the suburbs, especially outside of the beltway, are less segregated and racially driven than most urban centers.
This is a huge assumption. Are you saying that the suburbs, for example those in NoVA, are less segregated than places like New York City, Philly, etc.?
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Granted you don't want to move too far into the rural areas . . .
I wouldn't dismiss the rural areas in NoVA/VA but instead examine them on an individual basis. Not everyone out there is a farmer or hick.
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Overall, this area is fairly segregated, and the funny (as in sad) thing is that a part of the prejudiced attitudes are actually imported from people from other states.
I don't agree with this at all. It is a strong generalization about people who move here from other states.
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For specific details on every neighborhood, I would use the following to make your decision:
This map has a few problems. For one, places that have older architecture (i.e., Middleburg, City of Winchester, etc. ) show little to no growth. That's because there is not new construction compared to the suburbs around them. Obviously, new construction = more people. What it does not show is the changing demographics of certain areas. Again, if looking at the City of Winchester (since I live here), it does not reveal peoples that have moved out which have been "replaced" but peoples who may be from a different ethnicity and/or economic status. IOW, a neighborhood once occupied with lower-income whites or blacks may (now) have middle-income blacks or whites. So, the # of people has not changed but the type of people has.
Another thing is that maps like this tend to have sweeping %s of things which can be misleading. There are many bi-racial families (black & white) here in Winchester (more than I've seen in NoVA) and I am not sure how they get categorized in these types of maps.
I truly get offended at being called "non-diverse" just because I'm white.
Diversity does indeed extend to other things including various age, gender, occupation, education-level, race/ethnicity, religion, economic, and social difference. However, I believe (for this thread), the OP is concerned about race/ethnicity.
Location: Ft. Washington/Oxon Hill border, MD (Prince George's County)
321 posts, read 812,250 times
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On this whole doctor issue (and frankly we have many lawyers in this area making more than some of them without the high malpractice expense)...I don't know about majority but I have friends (black) who are doctors and have been invited to two black doctors homes who are friends of friends and these people were in PG. Accokeek, Fort Washington, Mitchellville and Upper Marlboro. I myself am a $300k+ household and am living in Oxon Hill bordering Ft. Washington (for now). One of my neighbors here in lowly Oxon Hill is a CEO of a tech company and is a millionaire. Why when they all can live anywhere? Who knows. Good commute? Like living near people who look like them? First home before higher income and never left? Chose to open a practice in their underserved black community and serve some of the unique health concerns of black people? Grew up in the area and like being near family? Frankly for many of the upper income black friends I have, including myself, we are one of the first in our family to have such success and education and living in proximity to lower income neighborhoods is something many of us are not unfamiliar with or horrified by and in many ways for myself many parts of PG are like living in Beverly Hills compared to some of the impoverished neighborhoods I lived in growing up. So the perspective of what is such a horrid place to live in can be very skewed depending on your own upbringing. Do not discount the family factor also. Because we made it does not mean that all of our family did...and I know quite a few people who stay in PG despite being able to live anywhere to be closer to their family, aging parents and taking advantage of the built in support system for help with childcare etc. that you have in family. I for one moved my family here once I had a child to assist me and now that they are here and we are looking to move for better schools and commutes in the near future...frankly they could not afford an apartment in many of the neighborhoods we are considering despite what we pay them to assist with rent costs....so that keeps me here slightly longer than I might otherwise desire.
Well to do black neighborhoods being in close proximity to lower class black neighborhoods is the norm in this country vs. the exception. It is no different than places like Baldwin Hills in Cali. which is also not far from lower income neighborhoods. Baldwin Hills, Los Angeles - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Next American City » Magazine » The Dilemma of the Black Middle Class (http://americancity.org/magazine/article/the-dilemma-of-the-black-middle-class/ - broken link)
I think as we are often the 1st generation of success, we also come to the table a step behind many of our peers financially despite our current high incomes. More often we did not have assistance paying for college/grad school or paying off student loans, did not have family assistance with our down payments on our first homes and in general wealth was not often passed down and we often have more responsibility in helping our families financially...all of this can play a part in where you feel you can afford to buy a home. As I was buying my first place (here in Oxon Hill), my legal colleagues were buying homes 3 times the price of what I was looking for and as we had those discussions about real estate many revealed assistance that either they or their spouse's family were providing that was making it easier to afford such a place. That is not the scenario for everyone of course, but comparatively for our first homes we are not on equal footing.
Last edited by TechlawyerinPG; 01-20-2012 at 04:08 AM..
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