U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Virginia > Northern Virginia
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 04-10-2012, 02:10 PM
 
267 posts, read 441,004 times
Reputation: 240

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by brooklynborndad View Post
Maybe Virginia should allow construction companies to decide if they want to become union/agency shops.
I think you're missing the point of a "right to work" state.

VA doesn't outlaw unions. It simply allows the individual worker to decide whether or not they want to join the union (and pay dues). This limits the union's power in the state because if people are given a choice they usually decide not to join.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 04-10-2012, 02:21 PM
 
Location: The Port City is rising.
8,776 posts, read 10,683,449 times
Reputation: 2503
Quote:
Originally Posted by SPHokie View Post
I think you're missing the point of a "right to work" state.

VA doesn't outlaw unions. It simply allows the individual worker to decide whether or not they want to join the union (and pay dues). This limits the union's power in the state because if people are given a choice they usually decide not to join.
Well of course, why pay dues if the others are going to bargain collectively for you anyway? Classic free rider problem.

They dont outlaw unions. They DO make it illegal for an employer to require payment of union dues as a condition of employment. So much for freedom of contract. So much for "employment at will".

I know exactly what the point of a "right to work" state is. And I don't like it.

But I do recognize its law in the Commonwealth. However that does not obligate anyone in the commonwealth to not favor union/agency shops, even if that means disfavoring virginia contractors as an unintended consequence of so called right to work legislation. I dont think it should so obligate local jurisdictions - AFAIK it does not so obligate them legally. If my local supervisor were to oppose any otherwise desirable project for a reason like that I would vote against them - but then I am not from LC, as I said.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-10-2012, 07:47 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC
2,842 posts, read 1,435,347 times
Reputation: 2297
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denton56 View Post
Nope, that is not true. I know every member of the Loudoun BOS and I know who's committed and who is not. Three of nine are definitely against it, with one more very likely to vote against it. Three are definitely for the metro to Loudoun, one more likely to vote with them. That makes a 4 to 4 vote. The tie breaker is unsure. I talk with that supervisor frequently she/he really is undecided. If I had to bet today, I'd have to say that that member of the board will vote against it and it will go down 5 to 4. It could also pass by that amount. Since the member who asked for the month long extension in the vote is the undecided one, it doesn't bode well for the pro metro supporters because they know that the more voters learn about the metro, and the cost, the less that they want it. The three firmly in favor of the metro voted against delaying the vote, but the other 6 outvoted them. What does that tell you?

Yes, the all republican board of supervisors in Loudoun is concerned that the biggest construction project in the history of the Commonwealth, could be built
5 out of 4 of the BOS in favor of it are MOST.


And it's obvious you're agains it. Every article you posted was anti-Metro.



Without the metro, we're gonna have increased taxes/tolls with a huge population and no roads to get outta here. Taxes and tolls are going o drastically increase anyway as the population grows. What exactly are we saving?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-11-2012, 12:57 AM
 
3,164 posts, read 6,121,790 times
Reputation: 1264
Another interesting column on the mess that is Phase II. Rail-to-Dulles Gets Fairfax Nod, Hurdles Remain | Bacon's Rebellion


Good comments there too, like this one, "One more time, the villains are not people from Amelia County, Henrico County or Virginia Beach. The people who sold out the DTR drivers were local officials. Couple this with a project that, without the feds closing their eyes, is not cost-effective to the extent necessary to earn federal funding and we have a big expensive mess. We are too far down the road to stop. But the fault the mess chiefly lies with Fairfax County elected officials. They gave the landowners what they wanted and the DTR drivers are now stuck with the bill, courtesy of Tim Kaine."

The more I think about it the more I think that best option for Loudoun is to opt out and let Fairfax pay for the subway to Dulles. If it ends there, Loudoun is off the hook for paying for the mess and there's no reason why people in Loudoun who want to take the metro can't drive the extra 2 miles. The 2 proposed stations in Loudoun only go 2.8 miles into the county. For that distance, people can drive to the stop at Dulles. Loudoun can pay to build a parking lot there. It would be much cheaper than committing forever to pay for metro and metro maintenance. Changing the zoning to make the developers richer without their excuse of having metro. Skip the excuses, change the zoning for them and everyone's happy. Democrats get their subway to Dulles, republican developers who donated to the republicans on the BOS are happy, and Loudoun taxpayers are happy because their money can be spent on other transportation projects,or schools, or fire stations, or libraries, or lowered taxes, instead of millions of year for the 2 metro stops forever. It's a win-win-win for everyone in Loudoun.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-11-2012, 01:17 AM
 
3,164 posts, read 6,121,790 times
Reputation: 1264
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonnymarkjiz View Post
5 out of 4 of the BOS in favor of it are MOST.


And it's obvious you're agains it. Every article you posted was anti-Metro.



Without the metro, we're gonna have increased taxes/tolls with a huge population and no roads to get outta here. Taxes and tolls are going o drastically increase anyway as the population grows. What exactly are we saving?
Huh? What if we put those BILLIONS were spent roads rather than metro?

I don't know if you noticed, but housing and growth has all but stopped in Fairfax and has drastically slowed in Loudoun. In Loudoun they were able to LOWER taxes this year saving every homeowner at least $200 this year.

Only 1% of the people will ever take metro. That's it. It will take over and hour and half to get to DC on metro from Loudoun, and cost a lot of money. Most people in Loudoun don't want to spend 3 hours commuting and pay for the privilege. 1% on metro will NOT solve our transportation problems.

Even Chairman Scott York has said that he will not vote for metro if the PLA remains in the agreement. MWAA (owners of the airport and the toll road and metro to Dulles) are holding firm on a PLA. York is THE BIGGEST metro booster in Loudoun. Most of York's big campaign donors are developers who really, really, want the metro so that they can ask for zoning changes and make more money from denser zoning. Ralph Buona wants it because he works for a company who's owner wants it for the same reasons, he'll make money! Anyway, even those two won't vote for the project if there's a PLA and so far there is.

Yes, the vote in Loudoun is likely to be 5 to 4. Fortunately, that's all that is needed to stop this huge waste of money. Since the public now has an extra month to learn more about what metro means for Loudoun the vote may become 6 to 3 or 7 to 2. There's a reason some supervisors voted against more time to get all the information in. They've made up their minds, no matter what the studies show or how much it will cost. They voted against the time extension, because they don't want any more stinkin' information, and because they don't want the public to learn more about the project. They know more time will work against them. Gee, wonder why that is?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-11-2012, 05:12 AM
 
5,071 posts, read 8,622,267 times
Reputation: 2722
The Census estimates that Fairfax had the largest population increase of any local jurisdiction - around 18,000 residents - between 2010 and 2011. Some of that growth is occurring near the new and current Metro stations.

I thought a main benefit of Phase II for Loudoun residents was supposed to be to get them to jobs in Reston and Tysons, not necessarily in DC. On the other hand, if a choice for Loudoun residents is between paying for a Phase II extension and improving the roads in congested areas like South Riding, not sure how I'd come out.

Last edited by JD984; 04-11-2012 at 05:35 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-11-2012, 06:12 AM
 
Location: among the clustered spires
2,380 posts, read 3,863,596 times
Reputation: 869
I will say that the pro-Metro forces are operating on certainty, the anti-Metro forces do seem to have energy behind them. This would be about the time when some CEO or the like could say, "Hey, we'll locate in Loudoun only if Metro is built out."

Last I checked, it took close to 90 minutes to get into DC from Loudoun anyway, Metro or no Metro. Roads will need to be built, Metro or no Metro.

As for a parking lot at Dulles, would that even be allowed?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-11-2012, 08:01 AM
 
Location: Washington, DC
2,842 posts, read 1,435,347 times
Reputation: 2297
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denton56 View Post
Huh? What if we put those BILLIONS were spent roads rather than metro?

I don't know if you noticed, but housing and growth has all but stopped in Fairfax and has drastically slowed in Loudoun. In Loudoun they were able to LOWER taxes this year saving every homeowner at least $200 this year.

Only 1% of the people will ever take metro. That's it. It will take over and hour and half to get to DC on metro from Loudoun, and cost a lot of money. Most people in Loudoun don't want to spend 3 hours commuting and pay for the privilege. 1% on metro will NOT solve our transportation problems.

Even Chairman Scott York has said that he will not vote for metro if the PLA remains in the agreement. MWAA (owners of the airport and the toll road and metro to Dulles) are holding firm on a PLA. York is THE BIGGEST metro booster in Loudoun. Most of York's big campaign donors are developers who really, really, want the metro so that they can ask for zoning changes and make more money from denser zoning. Ralph Buona wants it because he works for a company who's owner wants it for the same reasons, he'll make money! Anyway, even those two won't vote for the project if there's a PLA and so far there is.

Yes, the vote in Loudoun is likely to be 5 to 4. Fortunately, that's all that is needed to stop this huge waste of money. Since the public now has an extra month to learn more about what metro means for Loudoun the vote may become 6 to 3 or 7 to 2. There's a reason some supervisors voted against more time to get all the information in. They've made up their minds, no matter what the studies show or how much it will cost. They voted against the time extension, because they don't want any more stinkin' information, and because they don't want the public to learn more about the project. They know more time will work against them. Gee, wonder why that is?

More money for roads? Growth has SLOWED DOWN in Loudoun? Only 1% of people will take the Metro?


What alternative universe are you living in??? Where did you get that growth has slowed down for Loudoun? Are you not aware of at least 6 or 7 MAJOR projects for Loudoun? Not to mention, the homes that are being built here and potential businesses. Loudoun is definately growing, it's the fastest growing county in the area. Fairfax is about done with new development, but it took DECADES to get Fairfax where it is today.

Roads are a waste of money. Like tysonsengineer explained, you will spend a lot more in the long run on roads than you ever will need for a Metro. Plus, throwing money at roads is never a good idea (495, anyone?). Roads can only do so much to the capacity levels of the people driving on them, which is expected to be a lot. That, and as I said before, roads need a LOT of maintenance over time. Besides, look how great throwing more roads has worked out for Metro-less coutnies like Prince William County. (That's sarcasm btw).

Finally, only 1% of people will use the Metro? Again, where are you getting these numbers from. I actually live in Brambleton/Ashburn. EVERY SINGLE PERSON I've talked to say they would definately use the Metro whenever it gets here to get to work. And I've talked to a lot of people about it. Many residents here are ecstatic that we may potentially get a Metro. I work in Tysons (and I know, we probably won't see a Metro here for at least 7 years so it's a whatever), but if I could hop on the Metro everyday to get to work, I would gladly do it. Especially for those people who work in DC or Arlington, it's a straight shot into the city from there. People know it's going to take an hour or so to get into the city, but who cares? Beside that, most companies will pay the Metro fees for their employees to get to work (keyword, most, not all). It's a straight shot into the city vs driving in/paying to park to work/sitting on 66 wanting to shoot yourself. Sure, there's the bus too though, if that matters.


Also, this made me chuckle, since you really buy this...
" Loudoun taxpayers are happy because their money can be spent on other transportation projects,or schools, or fire stations, or libraries, or lowered taxes, instead of millions of year for the 2 metro stops forever. It's a win-win-win for everyone in Loudoun. "

You seriously think that we'll have lower taxes and that our money will go somewhere else to help the county??????? You can't be that deloousional. Our taxes will increase due to the population increase (w/o a Metro, Loudoun is already zoned to be a bedroom community, regardless), our tax money will just go to whatever those developments are to make the county MORE money. And we might see it going to roadways, but I wouldn't hold my breath. LOL @ you thinking that our tax dollars will go to schools, libraries, firestations, etc. Some of that money will, Metro or not. But let's get real, our taxes and tolls are going to have a marginal increase and we'll essentially be paying higher taxes on virtually nothing that will benefit us. We live in America, not a fantasy land.


Metro or no Metro, we're going to be screwed either way. Us not having a Metro won't change a thing, except just put more people on the roadways and will clog up our traffic in the long run.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-11-2012, 09:48 AM
 
Location: The Port City is rising.
8,776 posts, read 10,683,449 times
Reputation: 2503
Quote:
Originally Posted by JEB77 View Post
The Census estimates that Fairfax had the largest population increase of any local jurisdiction - around 18,000 residents - between 2010 and 2011. Some of that growth is occurring near the new and current Metro stations.
.
Im curious about that. There isn't THAT much TOD housing in FFX yet - metrowest and whats complete at Dunn Loring aren't that big, and there's not that much new product available in Tysons just yet - but I don't know where else it could be? Where is there new non-TOD housing under construction or just completed in FFX cty? Lorton Station area maybe? infill SFHs elsewhere? I wonder how much its densification of existing units (roommates, families doubling up, etc, in response to high rents)

Last edited by brooklynborndad; 04-11-2012 at 10:03 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-11-2012, 09:51 AM
 
Location: The Port City is rising.
8,776 posts, read 10,683,449 times
Reputation: 2503
Quote:
Originally Posted by stpickrell View Post
As for a parking lot at Dulles, would that even be allowed?
No, thats a fantasy, MWAA wont allow commuter parking there. The nearest commuter lots would be at "Innovation Center" (the rte 28 station) though TysonsEngineer seems to think that that station might be dropped to save $$ if neither Loudoun nor the Commonwealth come through - that would mean the nearest parking would be Herndon - which means paying the DTR toll, or driving a back way to Herndon.

And of course the DTR tolls will increase and be used to pay for phase 2, whether Loudoun drops out or not.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2016 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Virginia > Northern Virginia
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:53 PM.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top