06-03-2012, 08:12 AM
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I recently had the pleasure of sitting up in Fairfax County VA General District court for several traffic citations. My cases were one of the last ones called so I got to miss hours of work while sitting and listening to everyone else's stories as I waited for my name to be called. Here are my observations:
1. Most people were in there for speeding tickets, and none of these people really received a "break" from the judge.
2. Those with a plus (+) balance of points on their license got their fines reduced by the judge, but were still found guilty of the offense. So even though the judge wouldn't comment on how many demerit points the defendant would lose on their license because the DMV handles that, I assume that the person would still lose the full amount of points. The only advantage to having + points on your license was a lesser fine. Those with negative points paid the full fine.
3. Many people were in there for Reckless Driving charges (a stupid charge in VA. If you go over 80mph or 20mph above the speed limit, you can be charged with the misdemeanor of Reckless Driving, at the officer's discretion. Meaning that sometimes, depending on the officer's mood, he can still give you a speeding ticket even if you are going at a reckless speed). I have never seen anybody going to jail for Reckless Driving, even though it is possible in serious cases. Most people found guilty of Reckless Driving paid a fine of $200+ and the DMV also takes 6 points off your license.
4. The judge won't give you a lesser charge on your request. The only way to do this is to get a lawyer. I noticed that many people who originally had Reckless Driving charges, had a lawyer who was able to get some blue peice of paper attached to thier file. This blue sheet was an "amended charge", usually for speeding. So I guess this means that the person is found guilty of speeding and not Reckless Driving, and pays that lesser fine and gets those points. Hence, you need a lawyer in Fairfax County to get your Reckless Driving charge dropped. Get a lawyer for any misdemeanor (like DUIs). I'm not sure if it is even worth getting a lawyer for a speeding charge, but you can try and maybe get your serious speeding reduced to Improper Driving (only 3 points and less fine). Even those good + drivers still got convicted of speeding on this day, but paid a lesser fine.
5. When your name is called, you enter your plea, then the cop says how many points are on your license and how many convictions you've had. They usually only have your VA driving record, but in one case they had convictions from MD on one guy's record. Maybe MD, VA, and maybe DC share records? See this document on point assessments and how long convictions stay on your VA driving record:
http://www.dmv.virginia.gov/webdoc/pdf/dmv115.pdf . Points come off in 2 years, regardless of how long the conviction stays on there. The cop will also give his account of what happened first, and then you tell your side of the story. The judge will ALWAYS side with the cop.
6. Fairfax County does NOT send you to driving school in order to get your case reduced or dismissed. If you go to traffic school on your own voluntarily, it is only so you get those +5 points you can get every two years, to offset the points that you will lose when you are convicted.
7. For non moving violations (window tints, expired tags, expired registration, etc.), you can get your case dismissed with proof that you have corrected the problem such as pictures of your corrected car, receipts from the shop, and such.
8. Only one guy was taken out in handcuffs. But he had a DUI and a Reckless Driving charge. The judge fined him plus 2 days in jail (actually 90 day sentence with 88 days suspended, which is like 88 days of probation).
9. Only one guy got his license suspended on the spot. He had 3 prior licnese suspensions, several prior speeding tickets still on his record, and his lame story that he told the judge was so pathetic and stupid that a little kid could have came up with a better lie.
10. One girl was cited for going over 100mph in a 55 zone. I don't know what happened to her, but she had her case continued. She may face jail time or a license suspension for this egregious case.
11. Don't bother to try to talk to the cop outside before court to get a deal. They won't do it and won't give any legal advice. They will give you some general response. I've heard stories of some people finding a traffic lawyer in the halls on the spot, giving them a few hundred dollars, and the lawyer will work out a deal for you with the commonwealth of VA right there. Again, you need a lawyer to get a deal.
And despite what the cop tells you when you are pulled over, if you prepay your fine online, that is admitting guilt and you will still get all of the associated demerit points and any associated insurance rate increase! There is a misconception out there that prepaying your fine online avoids the points, nope!
Now things can vary by what judge you have for the day. I am by no means a lawyer so this is not legal advice, just my first hand observation.
Last edited by Big Toe; 06-03-2012 at 08:22 AM ..
06-03-2012, 09:20 AM
Status:
"Punxutawney Phil is on my hit list"
(set 7 days ago)
Location: state of confusion
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Simple solution- the numbers on the speed limit signs are there for a reason. That thing on your dashboard that has numbers -match them with the sign.
06-03-2012, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
thatdurncat13
Simple solution- the numbers on the speed limit signs are there for a reason. That thing on your dashboard that has numbers -match them with the sign.
Really.
I see from Big Toe's report that Fairfax County traffic court hasn't changed much in the 40 or so years since my last ticket. I've concluded that it's so much cheaper and easier to just obey the law.
06-03-2012, 10:22 AM
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Not all VA courts are the same. Fairfax sounds brutal..
I received a 83/70 in Richmond. I represented myself, pled guilty and asked for leniancy.
I had a clean record. The judge dismissed the ticket provided I complete online traffic school.
No lawyer needed.
Everyone that I saw charged with "30+ over" got 3 (or more) days in jail + suspended lic+ huge fines.
06-03-2012, 11:11 AM
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I'm assuming this is all based off of one judge? So instead of Fairfax County what you really mean is "this particular judge" in Fairfax County? There are many stores in the reckless thread of people going in without a lawyer (even in Fairfax County) and having no problem getting their reckless driving charge dropped.
The thing I take away from your post is that assuming missing whatever you would be doing by going to court is not a problem for you, you have nothing to lose by going to traffic court. Maybe people didn't get the big break they thought they were going to, but ask anyone who had the cop not show up and got their ticket straight up dismissed (or was given driving school) whether or not it was worth it to go.
If you can't take a day off to go to court then you need to drive slower or just mail it in.
06-03-2012, 01:08 PM
Location: Durham, NC
25,208 posts, read
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Reputation: 35844
Quote:
Originally Posted by
thatdurncat13
Simple solution- the numbers on the speed limit signs are there for a reason. That thing on your dashboard that has numbers -match them with the sign.
What you going to do when everyone else is going 10 over and going to run you off the road, even in the slow lane?
06-03-2012, 03:04 PM
6 posts, read
40,725 times
Reputation: 25
Yes, every court in VA is different, and every judge is different. So my post is for this one particular judge on this day, in Fairfax County Court only. There was one old guy in court that day that said that it was his first ticket in 60 years! While you heard the entire court whisper "damn!" at once when he said that, the judge just smirked and slightly shook his head and gave the guy a small fine.
I am assuming the DMV gives the same demerit points even though these "good drivers" paid less fines because it sounds like they were still convicted of the same offense regardless, but I would think insurance rates won't increase for these people. Of course, I don't know for sure so someone else can confirm this if it you know first hand.
There was a court I had to go to years ago farther south in VA for Reckless Driving and the fines were extremely steep, I had to pay like 3x as much as Fairfax County for a Reckless Driving by Speed charge, and it was my first ticket ever!
In my experince from being in the Washington DC metro area, Faifax County VA does have the most strict traffic laws. I only get pulled over in VA. I have made a resolution to try to drive slower and less aggressive, it is hard because I was raised in this area and aggressive driving is the way of life, but I am trying.
06-03-2012, 07:20 PM
872 posts, read
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Reputation: 2008
Gotta ask this, Big Toe...are you the little brother of this forum's poster Bigfoot?
06-03-2012, 07:31 PM
Location: Virginia-Shenandoah Valley
7,255 posts, read
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Reputation: 6710
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICS67
Gotta ask this, Big Toe...are you the little brother of this forum's poster Bigfoot?
I see what you did there...........
06-03-2012, 07:34 PM
Location: Virginia-Shenandoah Valley
7,255 posts, read
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Reputation: 6710
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Big Toe
Yes, every court in VA is different, and every judge is different. So my post is for this one particular judge on this day, in Fairfax County Court only. There was one old guy in court that day that said that it was his first ticket in 60 years! While you heard the entire court whisper "damn!" at once when he said that, the judge just smirked and slightly shook his head and gave the guy a small fine.
I am assuming the DMV gives the same demerit points even though these "good drivers" paid less fines because it sounds like they were still convicted of the same offense regardless, but I would think insurance rates won't increase for these people. Of course, I don't know for sure so someone else can confirm this if it you know first hand.
There was a court I had to go to years ago farther south in VA for Reckless Driving and the fines were extremely steep, I had to pay like 3x as much as Fairfax County for a Reckless Driving by Speed charge, and it was my first ticket ever!
In my experince from being in the Washington DC metro area, Faifax County VA does have the most strict traffic laws. I only get pulled over in VA. I have made a resolution to try to drive slower and less aggressive, it is hard because I was raised in this area and aggressive driving is the way of life, but I am trying.
I don't buy this. I moved here, as a teen, in 1973 and know a thing or two about driving in the metro area. It's a way of life because you've let it become so.
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People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards and hospices for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospices or homes for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Military hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Other hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals or wards for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Mental (Psychiatric) hospitals or wards (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the deaf (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the blind (%)
People in Group quarters - Orthopedic wards and institutions for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in general hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in military hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Juvenile institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Long-term care (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for abused, dependent, and neglected children (%)
People in Group quarters - Residential treatment centers for emotionally disturbed children (%)
People in Group quarters - Training schools for juvenile delinquents (%)
People in Group quarters - Short-term care, detention or diagnostic centers for delinquent children (%)
People in Group quarters - Type of juvenile institution unknown (%)
People in Group quarters - Noninstitutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - College dormitories (includes college quarters off campus) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - On base (%)
People in Group quarters - Barracks, unaccompanied personnel housing (UPH), (Enlisted/Officer), ;and similar group living quarters for military personnel (%)
People in Group quarters - Transient quarters for temporary residents (%)
People in Group quarters - Military ships (%)
People in Group quarters - Group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes or halfway houses for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Other group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Religious group quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - Dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Agriculture workers' dormitories on farms (%)
People in Group quarters - Job Corps and vocational training facilities (%)
People in Group quarters - Other workers' dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Crews of maritime vessels (%)
People in Group quarters - Other nonhousehold living situations (%)
People in Group quarters - Other noninstitutional group quarters (%)
Residents speaking English at home (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)