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Old 06-06-2012, 04:45 PM
 
Location: Tysons Corner
2,423 posts, read 1,666,106 times
Reputation: 1097

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Quote:
Originally Posted by globalburgh View Post
Good for you. That doesn't change the fact that you are looking at this issue as an ideologue. Other cities have implemented congestion pricing. Dismissing the approach because of where it is implemented lacks any semblance of reason or logic.
And I have read the reports on those HOT lane projects, and frankly the results are mixed and the benefits to traffic were negligible. You don't even know me, I hate how everyone calls me an IDEALOGUE.

I'm not a god damn idealogue, I'm someone telling you that as a transportation engineer there is a god damn finite limit to what roads can do. Why even have engineers if you won't listen to our advice, let the crooked politicians continue to play their stupid ass games.

VDOT ignores own data, pushes widening I-66 - Greater Greater Washington

There, YOUR SOLUTION FINALLY!

http://www.vta.org/expresslanes/pdf/...appendices.pdf

http://www.ajc.com/news/gwinnett/hot...e-1208710.html

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...lqYDR3NUfGgq8g

Our future savior the HOT LANES!

Can we see if it will work on 495 before crowning it the solution to all of our needs? Got a problem on FFX county parkway? Try a hot lane. Stuck on waxpool? Try some congestion pricing.

<--- feels like he's taking crazy pills

I didn't dismiss anything, I said it could WORK on certain corridors and in certain scenarios. Because of HOW the traffic is already distributed in this area, with flextime, plenty of telecommuting higher than the national average, and military people leaving far earlier than others, we have reached the pinnacle of what re-arranging timing can do. So if you are saying we need to start tolling roads for pay as you go, then I agree but thats just gonna force people onto the roads that arent tolled because those new tolled ways will be just as congested. Either way, slow the damn horses until we see what the HOT lanes can do before starting to build another 2 billion dollar possible mistake.

Its not like the NOVA area is allowed to build two train systems at the same time, so why should two toll lines be allowed?

For as much as NOVA people constantly complain about the toll roads around here, you people sure do love adding new ones, jeeeeez

Last edited by tysonsengineer; 06-06-2012 at 04:54 PM..
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Old 06-06-2012, 04:49 PM
 
Location: Leesburg
799 posts, read 700,784 times
Reputation: 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by tysonsengineer View Post
And I have read the reports on those HOT lane projects, and frankly the results are mixed and the benefits to traffic were negligible. You don't even know me, I hate how everyone calls me an IDEALOGUE.

I'm not a god damn idealogue, I'm someone telling you that as a transportation engineer there is a god damn finite limit to what roads can do. Why even have engineers if you won't listen to our advice, let the crooked politicians continue to play their stupid ass games.
I listen to transportation engineers. I was a city planning and zoning commissioner for three years. If you stop acting like an ideologue, more people would listen to what you have to say and even carefully consider your analysis.
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Old 06-06-2012, 04:58 PM
 
Location: Tysons Corner
2,423 posts, read 1,666,106 times
Reputation: 1097
So its being ideological to question the source of "credible design data" that comes from the state which was ranked as #50 for the worst traffic conditions in the country? And its ideological blindness to think that a city like Houston, which again is one of the worst cities to drive around in, is completely hideous to live in (ask my family who lives there), and whose number 1 product is petroleum should be questioned?

If it works on 495, hallelujah, after its successful there should be plenty of fervor to get 95 done, and heck after that maybe we can turn 66 into one too. But we should atleast let the one massive one we have constructing right now get done, start running, and see if it actually does anything. To do otherwise is putting the cart before the horse and dangerously leveraging ourselves to a possible transportation catastrophe, and THAT is why I also think that there should not be 2 mass transit improvements constructed at the same time as well. Wait and see what the reaction is in the land use planning, then start rethinking whats next. I simply do not see what is so ideological about that.

I am fine with highway projects, when done correctly they help connect a region, and private partnerships are a great way of funding, and I am most definitely ALL about pay as you go road construction as well. Doesnt mean that mass transit isn't also a great bargain when done properly as well, and the silver line I think will prove that. I dont need to think actually, I know it will because the tax revenue increase from the redevelopment is already paying for the pledged operation costs, and that is only from the 6 projects currently under construction, that is what congestion pricing never provides.
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Old 06-06-2012, 05:06 PM
 
Location: Leesburg
799 posts, read 700,784 times
Reputation: 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by tysonsengineer View Post
So its being ideological to question the source of "credible design data" that comes from the state which was ranked as #50 for the worst traffic conditions in the country? And its ideological blindness to think that a city like Houston, which again is one of the worst cities to drive around in, is completely hideous to live in (ask my family who lives there), and whose number 1 product is petroleum should be questioned?
Yes to both questions. Where the congestion pricing is employed is irrelevant. We could talk about the scheme in London or Singapore. Sure, the efficacy of the approach is still being hotly debated. But no one, save you, is trying to build a case against by lampooning it as something those idiots in Texas are doing.
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Old 06-06-2012, 05:10 PM
 
Location: Tysons Corner
2,423 posts, read 1,666,106 times
Reputation: 1097
Eh, my personal hatred of Texas and California aside (one for political reasons, obviously texas, and the other because it squanders its economic power in such paltry land use that even as the 7th largest economy in the world it appears it can't pay for its own land use policies), I still think that it is not "lampooning it" because its from Texas, its analyzing the fact that the information is coming from a place known for really crappy transportation decisions. I wouldnt trust China in how to create an equitable work place, I wouldn't trust India for water treatment plant advice, and I wouldn't trust DC to balance my check book. I'm not gonna lie, I dont like Texas, but if they figured out a way to more efficiently drill for natural resources I might take a listen, because they have been doing it for a while. if they find a better refining method, I would listen. When it comes to cheap saddlery and propane by product I would completely listen. When it comes to transportation? Until they fix that joke of a city known as Houstons transportation network, I can't take them serious.
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Old 06-06-2012, 05:13 PM
 
Location: Leesburg
799 posts, read 700,784 times
Reputation: 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by tysonsengineer View Post
Eh, my personal hatred of Texas and California aside (one for political reasons, obviously texas, and the other because it squanders its economic power in such paltry land use that even as the 7th largest economy in the world it appears it can't pay for its own land use policies), I still think that it is not "lampooning it" because its from Texas, its analyzing the fact that the information is coming from a place known for really crappy transportation decisions. I wouldnt trust China in how to create an equitable work place, I wouldn't trust India for water treatment plant advice, and I wouldn't trust DC to balance my check book.
Wow, more astoundingly poor logic. I wouldn't trust you to engineer traffic.
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Old 06-06-2012, 05:19 PM
 
Location: Tysons Corner
2,423 posts, read 1,666,106 times
Reputation: 1097
Quote:
Originally Posted by globalburgh View Post
Wow, more astoundingly poor logic. I wouldn't trust you to engineer traffic.
Good, I wouldn't trust you as a city planner. Which city btw was that? You want to tell me why its poor logic or just insult? This is exactly the kind of response people always give when I give rationale. OHHHH "thats stupid" How is it stupid, if you want to have a grown up conversation why dont you try to actually debate the subject instead of announcing it as ridiculous. If its so ridiculous why dont you dispute the points?
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Old 06-06-2012, 05:22 PM
 
Location: Leesburg
799 posts, read 700,784 times
Reputation: 232
I wasn't a city planner. I wouldn't trust me, either.
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Old 06-06-2012, 05:24 PM
 
Location: Tysons Corner
2,423 posts, read 1,666,106 times
Reputation: 1097
"I was a city planning and zoning commissioner for three years"

Last I checked a city zoning commissioner is integral to the planning process so are you just full of BS? You just stamped land use decisions, OK BY ME! Do what you want.
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Old 06-06-2012, 05:32 PM
 
Location: Tysons Corner
2,423 posts, read 1,666,106 times
Reputation: 1097
BTW GB you started this conversation by saying something that you have not BACKED in anyway or any form

"One could make a much bigger dent in the traffic problem with congestion pricing."

How. Tell me your rationale and WHERE you would institute this congestion pricing. How much would it need to cost? Would it have adverse effects on that corridor? Would residents see it as a new tax form?

These are things that I have been addressing in my responses with actual facts and empirical evidence. So if you want to defend your position I am willing to listen, but so far you have blurted an absurd opinion backed with nothing but insults on my returned opinion. I will stop calling it absurd when it comes out of the LALA land of being a fictional road, and becomes a real corridor in which you believe congestion pricing will help. Are you saying that the DTR should do congestion pricing? Well seeing as how it was a teeth pulling murderous scream of a backlash to the proposed 50 cent hike already, Id like to see you get it passed by the people who use the toll road. Would you do it on Route 7? Well you better start providing better LOS if you are going to start charging people for that corridor.

Transportation solutions arent just picking a concept out of thin air and saying IT WILL WORK AND FOR LESS PRICE! Its about what the cost actually benefits you and how well it can be implemented in a case by case basis. You made the best point when you said

"I also think the Silver Line will catalyze TOD. I would add that the increase in density would be a boon to Western Loudoun. People are going to continue to stream into Loudoun County whether the Silver Line is extended or not. TOD can help focus that influx to places where the county can better manage growth"

I agree, it will be a boon and the even better benefit is it will focus growth in a region which will have its infrastructure in place and not require expensive road widenings, which over the course of a decade will end up HELPING the traffic situation even if the metro itself doesn't by creating a better layout and concentration of our infrastructure efforts
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