Metro Silver Line and the Resurgence of Catoctin County (Lynchburg: crime, tax)

[stpickrell]

Originally Posted by globalburgh

Well, that would explain all the outhouses I see in Purcellville. Capital improvement, what's that? For some reason, you folks in Western Loudoun are seeking millions in grants from VDOT.

Hey, low taxes are easy to have if someone else is footing the bills. It's like a 20something making $10/hour at some pink or gold-collar job lecturing people about 'living simply' and 'money isn't everything,' while getting subsidized to the tune of $100s a month from Mom and Dad.

[tysonsengineer]

Originally Posted by globalburgh

I appreciate the context. Definitely interesting. Here is Brookings making the case that the "Washington area would be ideal" for congestion pricing:

Road-use Fees Could Solve Our Transit Woes | Brookings Institution

Couple things about the Brookings Institute story

Their quote "Suppose that reduced travel time was accompanied by better maintained roads, cleaner air and a faster, more reliable transit system?"

So this is a big supposition that the funds would go towards both the road itself and a transit system. Virginia receives the toll road funding, but NONE of it is going to any system other than highways in the case of 495 HOT and 95 HOT. The toll scheme is solely the price to pay for the capital cost and maintenance of the roads. I agree with Brookings in that a MIX of both this and a transit system to pick up the slack is the best way forward, especially when the funds for not using the car go directly to pay for options so you dont have to use the car. Here in lies the problem;

You would have to toll indiscriminately every route that all of Fairfax uses to get to all of the destinations they want to get to. Unlike other places, if you dont toll them all, people will jump onto Gallows to avoid 495, or Prosperity, or they will take 29 instead of 66 or 123 for portions, Route 1 instead of I-95, Waxpool instead of Greenway, Route 7 instead of DTR. Those roads suddenly become the ones that "need to be widened" when in reality the only reason their demands went up is because other areas are pushing drivers onto them (whether by toll or congestion).

495 HOT is already assured to be a failure because it doesn't increase the capacity of 495, it simply shifts some of the 495 users who hate congestion onto a highway which assures 55 mph speeds (not more users just better times). No fewer users will drive because of this congestion pricing, if they really start hating 495 some might pay the toll, but others will continue to shuffle into gallows and other side roads that create the interconnected web in this area. The same funding should have been used to connect the three main Virginia metro lines together instead (and should have happened a long time ago) Orange/Yellow/Blue (and future Silver). That is a method to actually reduce people on 495.

You gotta get a lot more liberal on where you toll (which is gonna **** some people off) otherwise people will just continue to skip around the areas that they arent tolled on, ruining the lives of people who live on those areas. You have to say ALL lanes of 495 are now TOLL or HOV-3 to start, quick sketch of what you would have to provide so as not to completely halt business in this region, because you cant just shut down the inner beltway all together without providing alternative transportation methods. Otherwise you are just taxing those who live further out (not the worst idea but really unfair to those who simply had to live further out and whose jobs might have moved etc), and if you are taxing them, you are making lots of money but traffic isn't getting any better.


CongestionPricing-Megaproject by nroshana, on Flickr

So in reality in order to get a congestion pricing system inside the beltway to work, we are YEARS off because simply the land use is too spread out right now, too many people would politically oppose it, and the mass transit corridors simply can't support the numbers of people who would want to switch from car to other modes.

[looktowindward]

Originally Posted by tysonsengineer

The assessed value of a class A 6 story office buildings is in the range of 5 million to 6 million per (depending on configuration) of which just Pacific Boulevard region of ashburn has 2 dozen. Add in the 40,000 homes (perhaps not as well priced but as an amalgam just as influential) assessed at 400,000-500,000ish and you have taxes assessed at $192,000,000. Even without the residential component I would think that just the commercial/industrial taxes in Ashburn probably outweigh the total tax revenue of all of Catoctin

You are forgetting the Ashburn data centers. They are assessed at $100m+ each, and there are a couple dozen at this point. Lets call it $2b worth... (it could be more)

[tysonsengineer]

True, super high density and specialized facilities will be even greater (for instance Tysons 2 and 1 are assessed at about 120 million each).

[Jib Jib]

Perfect examples here, of why money/greed is the root of all evil. What ever happened to moderation, balance, quality of life? How about open spaces, instead of giant data centers ? How about we spread out "business" across the land, instead of focusing it on a few areas (ie - the entire country)?

NOVA used to be a great place to live - I've been here since 1976, and will attest to that. Since about 1985, the efforts of business to saturate the area, have only served to bring in droves of people, who must now need schools, houses, roads, stores, and all the "necessities" of modern life. Too much of anything, is bad. This is no different. I'm moving out of this area as soon as I can.

[tysonsengineer]

Originally Posted by Jib Jib

Perfect examples here, of why money/greed is the root of all evil. What ever happened to moderation, balance, quality of life? How about open spaces, instead of giant data centers ? How about we spread out "business" across the land, instead of focusing it on a few areas (ie - the entire country)?

NOVA used to be a great place to live - I've been here since 1976, and will attest to that. Since about 1985, the efforts of business to saturate the area, have only served to bring in droves of people, who must now need schools, houses, roads, stores, and all the "necessities" of modern life. Too much of anything, is bad. This is no different. I'm moving out of this area as soon as I can.

Theres the door.

Anti-progress is foolish and creates stagnant slums of blight. No one is saying to destroy farmlands and rural lands. This is an area that is extremely suburban and sprawled without any consensus on a plan design. This is now FINALLY being modified to that it has mixed use (more businesses spread around in different areas) along a corridor which can handle the traffic better than roads.

And you are so opposed to data centers, well guess what its one of the best ways to keep costs DOWN on residential real estate taxes and its the source of all this BEAUTIFUL internet that you are using. So unless you want to get off the grid I'd suggest you stop being a hypocrite and an obstructionist.

[Jib Jib]

Originally Posted by tysonsengineer

Theres the door.

Anti-progress is foolish and creates stagnant slums of blight. No one is saying to destroy farmlands and rural lands. This is an area that is extremely suburban and sprawled without any consensus on a plan design. This is now FINALLY being modified to that it has mixed use (more businesses spread around in different areas) along a corridor which can handle the traffic better than roads.

And you are so opposed to data centers, well guess what its one of the best ways to keep costs DOWN on residential real estate taxes and its the source of all this BEAUTIFUL internet that you are using. So unless you want to get off the grid I'd suggest you stop being a hypocrite and an obstructionist.

You don't get it, do you ? Did you grow up here ? Did you get to see Fairfax County, Fairfax City, Loudoun and Prince William Counties explode into gridlocked and over-populated asphalt jungles? I bet not. Well, I did. And I don't like it. And yes, I see the door, and will be walking right through it asap.

Enjoy the crowds and high taxes.

[tysonsengineer]

Originally Posted by Jib Jib

You don't get it, do you ? Did you grow up here ? Did you get to see Fairfax County, Fairfax City, Loudoun and Prince William Counties explode into gridlocked and over-populated asphalt jungles? I bet not. Well, I did. And I don't like it. And yes, I see the door, and will be walking right through it asap.

Enjoy the crowds and high taxes.

Yea actually I did, lived here my entire life essentially since the Age of 2 (pardon me for not being born here). I watched as the FFXparkway was built transforming central Fairfax, connecting western and eastern fairfax. I saw the growth from sprawl to commercial dominance along the dulles corridor, I watched as people who used to have no money suddenly were vaulted to upper middle class from the regions prosperity. I watched as crime rates PLUMMETED to historic lows.

If you wanna talk about all the crappy stuff in this arae, then you have to acknowledge all the stuff that makes this region still one of the top 3 destinations for people to live in also. And like I said, if you wanna leave, theres the door, enjoy all that money you made on the sale of your house. There will be someone moving in right on your tail shortly I assure you.

[Jib Jib]

Originally Posted by tysonsengineer

Yea actually I did, lived here my entire life essentially since the Age of 2 (pardon me for not being born here). I watched as the FFXparkway was built transforming central Fairfax, connecting western and eastern fairfax. I saw the growth from sprawl to commercial dominance along the dulles corridor, I watched as people who used to have no money suddenly were vaulted to upper middle class from the regions prosperity. I watched as crime rates PLUMMETED to historic lows.

If you wanna talk about all the crappy stuff in this arae, then you have to acknowledge all the stuff that makes this region still one of the top 3 destinations for people to live in also. And like I said, if you wanna leave, theres the door, enjoy all that money you made on the sale of your house. There will be someone moving in right on your tail shortly I assure you.

Really ? People with no money, suddenly had money ? How is that? Unless they sold AND moved, then they haven't prospered from squat. Not everyone in the 70's and 80's had white-collar engineering jobs. Many were blue collar - teachers, police officers, public servants. Ask a teacher the next time you see one, where he or she lives. I bet it's not in FX or LOCO. And if it is, it's probably a haibtrail townhouse.

I can't refute your claim of lower crime rates, despite the fact you provided no data to back up that statement. My gut feeling tells me you're wrong, though.

As for acknowledging the "good" stuff -again, too much of a "good" thing is bad for everybody. Too many people = higher taxes, less open space, busier roads, and overall higher prices for everything.

How about we just agree, that you think this area is great, and I no longer do. Nothing personal, but this is not the NOVA I grew up in.

[stpickrell]

Originally Posted by Jib Jib

Really ? People with no money, suddenly had money ? How is that? Unless they sold AND moved, then they haven't prospered from squat. Not everyone in the 70's and 80's had white-collar engineering jobs. Many were blue collar - teachers, police officers, public servants. Ask a teacher the next time you see one, where he or she lives. I bet it's not in FX or LOCO. And if it is, it's probably a haibtrail townhouse.

I can't refute your claim of lower crime rates, despite the fact you provided no data to back up that statement. My gut feeling tells me you're wrong, though.

As for acknowledging the "good" stuff -again, too much of a "good" thing is bad for everybody. Too many people = higher taxes, less open space, busier roads, and overall higher prices for everything.

How about we just agree, that you think this area is great, and I no longer do. Nothing personal, but this is not the NOVA I grew up in.

Your gut feeling is incorrect.

Uniform Crime Reports of Fairfax County and Index from 1985 to 2005

In *every* category, there was less crime in Fairfax in 2005 than in 1980, despite the population of Fairfax doubling in that timeframe.

Uniform Crime Reports of Loudoun County and Index from 1985 to 2005

same in Loudoun County.

How do you wish things had changed, as opposed to your current assertion that "It's not 19(whatever year you think was ideal) anymore!"