Quick Responses Appreciated! 2WD vs AWD/4WD in this area (public transportation, liberal)

[GustavoFring]

Originally Posted by car54

"always"? Not hardly.

Until CAFE requirements made FWD common, ALL domestic cars were RWD. Well except for the 30's Cord 810 and the '66 Olds Toronado and they were definitely not cheapo cars.

CAFE had little to do with the FWD revolution. Small, cheap imports from Japan did. After detroit saw that the average american driver would buy a miniature econobox from japan with FWD as long as it was cheaper, they started switching up their production methods to get in on the savings. FWD was marketed in the 80s by domestics and Japanese imports as "the wave of the future" and their advertisements extolled the benefits, but it was all just a gimmick to make people think they were getting more when in fact they were getting less. Slowly but surely all domestic manufacturers migrated not only their tiny cars to FWD, but even most of their big cars. RWD was reserved for the Lincolns and Cadillacs of the world, but now even the small versions of those are using it.

Those who never went to it? Ze Germans, with the exception of the cheapo VWs (which are basically mexican imports at this point) and full time AWD audis (VW group). As FWDs have permeated the market, the demand for proper RWD drive cars has skyrocketed and those cars from automakers that DO have RWD are considered much more desirable. Think Nissan/Infiniti and Toyota/Lexus. The Nissans are ALL FWD, where as all of the Infiniti versions of the exact same car are RWD (Except for their AWD models). Lexus sells several models, with their lower end versions being FWD (ES), and their higher end only being RWD (GS/LS). The IS, while on the lower end, it is RWD because it has aspirations of being sporting and competing with the 3-Series and G35/37 from Infiniti.

Lately, the US police have been struggling to find a decent replacement to the older detroit police cars because the new ones are all FWD. They even went to great lengths to stock up on the old models before they stopped production.

There is no confusion about it amongst the automotive enthusiasts and designers, RWD has been, and always will be superior to FWD only.

[car54]

Originally Posted by GustavoFring

CAFE had little to do with the FWD revolution. Small, cheap imports from Japan did. After detroit saw that the average american driver would buy a miniature econobox from japan with FWD as long as it was cheaper, they started switching up their production methods to get in on the savings...

Well, I'm not an automotive historian...but I tend to disagree with your opinion of what "detroit saw".

The oil shock of 1973 was truly a shock. I remember well the long lines at gas stations and hoping the tanks didn't go dry just as it was your turn....the odd-even gas purchase days....it was a royal PITA. That's when Americans started buying "economy" cars in numbers.

Detroit's economy offerings were pitiful...think Chevy Vega and Ford Pinto . The Japanese imports were far, far superior and that's why people bought tons of them....and they were REAR WHEEL DRIVE. Toyota and Datsun didn't go to FWD until around '83....about the same time Detroit started. Honda was FWD in the 70's but they were basically four wheel motorcycles with 2 cylinder engines. Fun to drive though, I had one!

Incidentally, my dad was offered one of the first Datsun dealerships in the US in the 60's. He laughed at those silly looking little cars and declined. A fellow named Bob Tedd took the franchise instead (Fairfax Circle, where the Chik-Fil-A is today). Pop always regretted his decision...for obvious reasons, LOL

[NC211]

I've had several cars in my past, 3 4x4's and one AWD that would fit this conversation. Only twice has mother-nature actually thrown something at us that made this option viable. First, had a 4Runner in Chicago for 3 years, and was well worth the gas prices in it's ability during the winter to get out of our neighborhood and on to the main streets. Didnt happen a lot (usually plowed roads), but when it did, it was the exact "feature" to have.

The second was in my old 99' Subaru Outback (AWD) during hurricane Floyd along the SE coast of NC. Had to vacate for Charlotte after the initial 6 hours of heavy rains from the storm. Let me tell you, that car wasn't a "car"... it was a water spider! Probably the most amazing driving experience I've ever had, as I held the wheel and could feel the power from the engine circulating around me to the wheel(S) with the best traction. I passed many SUV's who were crawling along "because they'd probably flip over in a hydroplane skid", and don't think I went below 50mph the whole drive out to Charlotte from Wilmington.

Do you need 4x4? No, infact unless you're doing some serious off-roading in the mud, I don't think you need 4x4 in general. AWD however, in a car-based platform, is quite nice to have in heavy rains. Snow is snow, ice is ice, but many forget about it's benefits in rain.

[Carlingtonian]

Originally Posted by GustavoFring

As FWDs have permeated the market, the demand for proper RWD drive cars has skyrocketed and those cars from automakers that DO have RWD are considered much more desirable. Think Nissan/Infiniti and Toyota/Lexus. The Nissans are ALL FWD, where as all of the Infiniti versions of the exact same car are RWD (Except for their AWD models). Lexus sells several models, with their lower end versions being FWD (ES), and their higher end only being RWD (GS/LS). The IS, while on the lower end, it is RWD because it has aspirations of being sporting and competing with the 3-Series and G35/37 from Infiniti.

Lately, the US police have been struggling to find a decent replacement to the older detroit police cars because the new ones are all FWD. They even went to great lengths to stock up on the old models before they stopped production.

There is no confusion about it amongst the automotive enthusiasts and designers, RWD has been, and always will be superior to FWD only.

All BMWs are either RWD or all-wheel-drive.

Much as I think AWD is a needless complication/expense, the wife is keen to get AWD on the X1 she wants us to buy when they come out. (It's going to be offered in RWD as well.)

[bmwguydc]

In this area AWD is nice to have, but not needed for normal driving conditions. I have been out and about in bad snow, since being from NY, snow and ice are not too scary, and there are just people who don't need to be out on the roads, no matter the vehicle. I have passed people who could not get their Tahoe running, in a Volvo sedan (AWD with a second set of winter tires).

With the Pilot, I don't like the way the FWD handles, so I would tend not to get one for that reason. It's just like the minivans where the Odyssey is fine until the weather gets rough, as one of my sisters-in-law is constantly stranded trying to get up her driveway in the Ody. That's why they keep an extra Volvo handy because it gets in and out when the van has issues just getting out of the garage, but such weather only lasts for a short time around here.

The newer Subarus are showing improved fuel economy, and every Subaru is AWD. However, the equivalent Subaru to the vehicles you are considering is the Tribeca, which is capable, but fuel economy is not its strong point. AWD does retain value better, especially when looking at the Highlander and Pilot. The Pilot is also pretty close in terms of fuel economy, only off 1mpg in EPA testing between FWD and 4WD. The Highlander can appear to have more of a variance, but be sure the FWD Highlander has the V6, not the 4, for the sake of comparison, as the numbers are closer between the V6 FWD and the AWD, which only comes with a 6-cylinder.

[HarborEastGuy]

2WD is fine in Nova. I have an Infiniti G35 2WD/Rear wheel drive.
It was useless in Colorado.. But here no problem.. It rarely freezes
hard in the winter here and they keep the roads salted x10.

No worries.. 2WD with all season tires is just fine in Nova. Trust me..

[saganista]

Because winter extremes are relatively rare, there simply is not enough equipment here to do anything at all to most of the roads on those few occasions when the big boys do come lumbering in. Major roads will be passable soon enough, but the capacity to reach a major road may be interupted for days. I will say again that there is no single answer to the question. Your winter needs will depend on the nature of your local terrain and the probability that you will be called upon to cross that terrain under adverse conditions.

Keep in mind that if you go to work in the morning, you will likely want to get home again in the evening, particularly if you've dropped a wee one at the sitter. Roads can be fine in the morning and all but impassable to many by evening. How much would that bother you?

[Shelborne_22033]

I live in Western Fairfax Co. My FWD Toyota Sienna does well in my street neighborhood that does not get plowed regularly. I also have a 2WD/RWD Toyota Tacoma that is a challenge driving during inclement weather because the rear-end is so light. I weigh it down with 200-250 lbs of wood chunks centered over the rear axle. This helps traction a lot. In the spring, I chop it up for next year.

My 2WD, 4cyl Tacoma is lighter, drives better and makes better MPG than the 4WD versions. While it's nice to have, I don't believe 4WD vehicles are needed in this area during inclement weather. But whatever makes you happy and secure....

[CAVA1990]

I'm a liberal so think I should have a 4wd but everyone else should take public transportation.

[AnalyzeThis]

To close the loop on this, we ended up going with the Highlander AWD, I wanted something a little smaller but two dogs and the anticipation of a little one (or two) plus frequent visitors made more room than our RX essential. The difference in price for an equivalent hybrid was $10k more and offered about 5 miles more to the gallon, not worth it for us. I was able to negotiate a deal below invoice since Toyota was offering a rebate. We are very happy with our purchase, and appreciate all your replies!