Marylanders moving to Virginia in Droves (Richmond, Arlington: school, median income, tax)
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It isn't necessarily the number of if's involved, but rather the ease with which they can be met. These supposedly inferior Montgomery County schools have had the top graduation rates among the fifty largest school systems in the country for four years running. With the special-case exception of TJ, their top schools match up well with our top schools. They have higher crime rates only because they have more Culmore and Route-1 type areas than we do. Crime in the upscale areas that the typical NoVa poster might live or work in or choose to visit is the same there as it is here -- all but non-existent. Montgomery County imposes personal and busines income taxes at the county level. At the same time, they have lower property tax rates and no car tax or BPOL tax. At the the end of the day, Montgomery County spends about $4700 per resident (2009 data) while Fairfax spends about $4300. This discussion ends up being one of whether chocolate or strawberry ice cream is superior. The actual facts are that the two counties are far more similar to than different from each other.
Montgomery County? Try comparing Fairfax to PG County. (Arlington would == MoCo)
You can make anything sound good if you cherry pick it. It makes no sense financially to live in MD. And if you really broke down the true cost of living in both locations line by line, you would be surprised. You can easily end up paying 30-40% more in total taxes (not in taxed amount) by going from VA to MD. Obviously everyones situation is different, but seriously, MD will take it to you.
If you want to talk about commute or whatever, then that is fine, but when you throw in crime and all of that its just too much money. The conditions have to be basically perfect to be in MD.
Having lived in both areas, car insurance is much higher in Md and I mean double the costs. At least that has been my experience with an excellent driving record. That cost can be substantial or a deal breaker. But I will say I moved to VA in the very late 1980s, so I do carry some old baggage as far as being a little disgruntled with that issue some time ago.
Still the same. Move from Arlington to MoCo and it will be between 50-100% higher. Your car tax goes down every year as the car depreciates (and counties throw in chunks of releif) cant say the same about car insurance.
Montgomery County? I stopped reading right there. Move from Fairfax to PG County and then talk back to me please. PG County has the same tax liability as Montgomery.
And to that very extent, Botetourt County has the same tax burden as Fairfax. Do you think the Washington Tmes article and phony Change Maryland study had anything at all to do with Botetourt County?
Actually there are different tax burdens - both direct and indirect. No need to have your car smogged down in Botetourt. Bonds - which taxpayers in Fairfax have never said no to - wind up raising your taxes owing to the county's need to increase the property tax in order to service bond debt. There are also special tax districts for major infrastructure packages (Dulles Rail).
One can either shoot the messenger or admit the truth - and for those interested in "migratory" patterns the Census Dept. has an excellent resource under their "Quickfacts" page that covers details from age groups thru education, home ownership to income rates. It's quite illuminating, and provides some real data that seems to support the OP.
Moderator Cut
Now that the mods have cleaned it up sufficiently, I can reply to this post merely by noting that not one of the details from the Census QuickFacts page alleged to provide support for the OP's contentions concerning tax-motivated migration was identified. Neither was any actual means by which such data might have been supposed to provide such support identified. In fact, the data presented on the Census QuickFacts pages are snapshot summary demographic profiles and nothing more. No attempt to explain or analyze the data or changes in them is made there.
Actually there are different tax burdens - both direct and indirect.
There are different tax burdens everywhere, but it's impossible to discuss anywhere versus everywhere. Fairfax and Montgomery are two comparable counties for which ample data are available. Each of them is the most populous county in its state. They are in the same SMSA. They are in fact neighbors across a state line. More unrelated background noise is filtered out in using these two counties as examples than perhaps any other pair. Comparing Botetourt County to PG County would certainly not make as much sense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ViennaSausages
Bonds - which taxpayers in Fairfax have never said no to -
You either haven't lived here long enough or didn't do any research on that. Bonds are meanwhile a more than suitable choice as a means of financing for long-term capital projects, just as a mortgage may make more sense than trying to pay cash for a house. Special tax districts meanwhile attempt to focus more of the burden on those who will receive more of the benefits. Hard to argue against the principle...
Last edited by saganista; 07-11-2012 at 09:18 AM..
There are different tax burdens everywhere, but it's impossible to discuss anywhere versus everywhere. Fairfax and Montgomery are two comparable counties for which ample data are available. Each of them is the most populous county in its state. They are in the same SMSA. They are in fact neighbors across a state line. More unrelated background noise is filtered out in using these two counties as examples than perhaps any other pair. Comparing Botetourt County to PG County would certainly not make as much sense.
So why raise the issue of Botetourt to begin with? PG is a DC MSA component; Botetourt is not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by saganista
You either haven't lived here long enough or didn't do any research on that. Bonds are meanwhile a more than suitable choice as a means of financing for long-term capital projects, just as a mortgage may make more sense than trying to pay cash for a house. Special tax districts meanwhile attempt to focus more of the burden on those who will receive more of the benefits. Hard to argue against the principle...
Please, spare me the wet behind ears bit. I've been here plenty long enough to know that EVERY bond issue that I've seen come up for a vote in this county has been approved. Glad to see that you're interested in mortgagomg futures by borrowing, borrowing and more borrowing. After all Fairfax is really good at that.
Thats not true at all, there have bonds rejected for plenty of issues in Fairfax, you can do your own research but just one example recently
In 2011 the board rejected a bond referendum for 50 million towards flood control in Huntington. Several park bonds have been rejected over the past 5 years. The point is, when a project is anticipated to cultivate growth in Fairfax and relieve traffic (which by the way is the reason we dropped in the best state to live in poll this year and is causing actual impact to our states productivity and competitiveness) then they will approve it. If it is not an essential, they have shown restraint to spend money on items that dont pay back.
The bonds we have for current projects are in anticipation of building a better Eastern Fairfax which will help reduce the tax burden for the rest of Fairfax to avoid what Loudoun is going through right now in having to increase tax rates much faster due to rapid growth. Tax the commercial high rises so that home owners dont have to be taxed. Get those commercial high rises by addressing infrastructure.
PS, I'd like it noted I am not the cause of the argument here (avoiding penalty on a thread for the first time ever)
And to that very extent, Botetourt County has the same tax burden as Fairfax. Do you think the Washington Tmes article and phony Change Maryland study had anything at all to do with Botetourt County?
Nope, but I think it had something to do with PG. Either way, MoCo costs mo' than anywhere in VA all things being equal.
So why raise the issue of Botetourt to begin with? PG is a DC MSA component; Botetourt is not.
Dear me. I agree that Botetourt County does not belong in the discussion, and for the same reasons that PG County does not. So long as it is conceded that aggregated state-level data do not provide a low enough level of detail, then the more granular county-level data must be taken from significant and comparable counties. Such as Montgomery and Fairfax. Does that help clear things up?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ViennaSausages
Please, spare me the wet behind ears bit. I've been here plenty long enough to know that EVERY bond issue that I've seen come up for a vote in this county has been approved.
Google it. Then come back and apologize for your double-misstatement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ViennaSausages
Glad to see that you're interested in mortgagomg futures by borrowing, borrowing and more borrowing. After all Fairfax is really good at that.
Pointless and uninformed babble. Borrowing has been a valid and significant means of financing for milllennia. As was rather clearly pointed out earlier, it is particularly well suited to enabling spending on long-term capital projects. Such as the Silver Line extension. That will be providing benefits for at least fifty years. Why should it not also be paid for over fifty years? Before answering, consider that the American Revolution was financed almost entirely by debt. It took fifty years to pay that off as well.
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