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The concept of worlds lost is not unique to Brooklyn or NYC; "
I never said otherwise, although I suspect you could find neighborhoods with the attributes you mention elsewhere in the USA, if not elsewhere in greater Washington.
The feel of where I lived - mostly jewish (and most of the rest Italian-American) but not Orthodox, lower middle class, and definitely urban (yet oddly bucolic) not only is not found in greater DC, its not found in NYC anymore, and AFAICT, not anywhere in North America. Oh, the world we have lost.
I don't know, when I visited Jerusalem a few years back, it had a pretty strong old Brooklyn vibe albeit much more Orthodox and Ultra-Orthodox (if secular Jewishness is your thing, there is always Tel Aviv). You can always make aliyah. Next year in Jerusalem and all that.
In any case, I care about that "old Brooklyn" of your memory probably about as much as you do for the "old old Brooklyn" of the Irish, before Italians and Jews replaced them.
I mean, really, they say the best life was actually the English country life during the interwar years (modern conveniences like automobiles and electricity as well as archaic conveniences like devoted servants).
I don't know, when I visited Jerusalem a few years back, it had a pretty strong old Brooklyn vibe albeit much more Orthodox and Ultra-Orthodox (if secular Jewishness is your thing, there is always Tel Aviv). You can always make aliyah. Next year in Jerusalem and all that.
I did say North America - I dont think a discussion here of neighborhoods in Israel would be useful.
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In any case, I care about that "old Brooklyn" of your memory probably about as much as you do for the "old old Brooklyn" of the Irish, before Italians and Jews replaced them.
You will note I was not responding to your post, but to stormy skys. What makes you think I care what YOU care about?
BTW, my old neighborhood was never mostly Irish. It was mostly still english and dutch when the Jews started to arrive in numbers. And of course there were still heavily Irish areas in Brooklyn when I was growing up. Just to point out that brooklyn's history can't be reduced to a simple caricature. There are and were many "brooklyn feels"
BTW, my old neighborhood was never mostly Irish. It was mostly still english and dutch when the Jews started to arrive in numbers. And of course there were still heavily Irish areas in Brooklyn when I was growing up. Just to point out that brooklyn's history can't be reduced to a simple caricature. There are and were many "brooklyn feels"
Maybe we should figure out how to translate the Neil Simon trilogy ("Brighton Beach Memoirs," "Biloxi Blues" and "Broadway Bound") of a Brooklyn youth's coming of age into NoVa-ese.
The alliteration of the original titles poses some challenge.
For "Brighton Beach Memoirs," perhaps we go with "Brambleton Bench Memoirs."
Biloxi was where Simon's character was stationed for military service away from home, so we can leave that one alone.
For "Broadway Bound," perhaps we can swap a DC-hipster neighborhood for the Great White Way, and go with "Bloomingdale Bound." Or, if the character decides to live La Vida Loca and work for a defense contractor in the suburbs, "Beltway Bound" would do the trick.
I did say North America - I dont think a discussion here of neighborhoods in Israel would be useful.
I am simply stating that "old Brooklyn" of yours is alive somewhere else in the world in one form or another. It's not completely lost. Even Yiddish is making a bit of a comeback (I'd say about half of my neighbors in NYC spoke Yiddish at home although when I came back from college, many neighbors had been replaced by Russian speakers). If you don't find the comment useful, move on.
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You will note I was not responding to your post, but to stormy skys. What makes you think I care what YOU care about?
I don't know whether you care what I think or not. That has no bearing on what I write here, which is intended for many. My comment was merely to make a point that your precious "lost world" was a replacement of someone else's lost world. The world is not all about you, you know.
By the way, if you intend to write a message just for one person, there is a direct message feature here as I am certain you know. Otherwise, expect others to read and comment on what you write whether you like it or not. That's just the way the cookie crumbles here I am afraid.
As a general comment, I do become somewhat annoyed that some people come to Northern Virginia and complain about it not being old Jewish Brooklyn or "organic" Pittsburgh with historical homes or what have you. I am here because I like the area and its combination of positives that, to me, far outweighs its negatives. I tried living in Hampton Roads for a year, didn't like it, so I moved back (and before that I lived in seven different states). I voted with my feet. I didn't stay there and go on about how Hampton Roads wasn't NoVA. I certainly understand and appreciate those who miss "the comforts of home" so to speak, but at some point you have to move past it or move on (or back).
Biloxi was where Simon's character was stationed for military service away from home, so we can leave that one alone.
Since we NoVAns tend to be over-achievers, I would suggest the mythical NoVAn Simon (or, better, Katy) be stationed at Fort Lewis or Fort Bragg. Or Maybe s/he should be Navy and hang out at Virginia Beach. And Vietnamese-American Katy dates an African-American man and break up because of their ethno-cultural differences. Later he ends up marrying Trude Nguyen.
I am simply stating that "old Brooklyn" of yours is alive somewhere else in the world in one form or another. It's not completely lost.).
it is. Im not going to waste my time going into the nuances of 1970s brooklyn vs 2012 Tel Aviv to explain why.
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By the way, if you intend to write a message just for one person, there is a direct message feature here as I am certain you know. Otherwise, expect others to read and comment on what you write whether you like it or not. That's just the way the cookie crumbles here I am afraid.).
I wrote for all to read. I was responding to your apathy with what I care about with my apathy about what you care about.
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As a general comment, I do become somewhat annoyed that some people come to Northern Virginia and complain about it not being old Jewish Brooklyn or "organic" Pittsburgh with historical homes or what have you. I am here because I like the area and its combination of positives that, to me, far outweighs its negatives. I tried living in Hampton Roads for a year, didn't like it, so I moved back (and before that I lived in seven different states). I voted with my feet. I didn't stay there and go on about how Hampton Roads wasn't NoVA. I certainly understand and appreciate those who miss "the comforts of home" so to speak, but at some point you have to move past it or move on (or back).
Good grief - I dont see where I suggested I have a program to make NoVa like Old Brooklyn (though again, its impossible to vote with my feet for a way of life that no longer exists - and many people are tied to NoVa by a job, by family, etc and did NOT choose it for its "feel") - I was trying to clarify something about the "feel of Brooklyn" which is much more nuanced than was implied in the post I was responding to. I DO think that there ARE parts of NoVa that have a lot of what many people like about Park Slope - Del Ray in particular, even if the architecture is rather different.
I do want to make parts of NoVa better and somewhat different than they are now - that however is a goal I share with the elected governments of Alexandria and especially Arlington, and at least with respect to Tysons, Annandale, Dunn Loring, Baileys Crossroads and the Rte 1 corridor with the elected govt of Fairfax County and with many other people who live along or inside the beltway. However I am quite sure if and when those changes are accomplished, the resulting areas will not much resemble the brooklyn neighborhood in which I grew up - certainly not in their demographics.
and oh yes, I still intend to vote with my feet (in the absence of change in Annandale) for Arlington, Alexandria, or maybe even DC. We aren't there yet, but we are working on it. Meanwhile I will vote in the more conventional manner for the changes I believe in in Fairfax.
"It is better to light a candle, than to curse the darkness"
Last edited by brooklynborndad; 09-28-2012 at 12:33 PM..
it is. Im not going to waste my time going into the nuances of 1970s brooklyn vs 2012 Tel Aviv to explain why.
That no two places on earth at two different time frames will ever be exactly the same is not exactly a brilliant observation that requires an explanation by a superior mind.
However, there are certain flavors or "vibes," if you will that live on through time and place. I have experience with both "Old Jewish Brooklyn" and Jerusalem. And parts of the latter has some lingering qualities of the former (in fact quite a few residents of the latter are offspring of those who resided in the former). You might disagree, of course, but I would hope that is an informed disagreement.
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I wrote for all to read. I was responding to your apathy with what I care about with my apathy about what you care about.
To be precise, I did not write anything about what I cared about so much as to point out that your specific concerns of a lost world may not be our concerns. Your words regarding Brooklyn of your youth was "oh the world we lost." We did not lose anything. You did. Of course, we all lose places and time, but some of us do not assume this is newsworthy to others.
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Good grief - I dont see where I suggested I have a program to make NoVa like Old Brooklyn
Good grief aside, I did not suggest any such thing, so have fun punching a strawman. It was a general remark about people who continually go on about some deficiency in NoVA as compared to other places.
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(though again, its impossible to vote with my feet for a way of life that no longer exists
Then get together with other like-minded folks and build yourself as close a replica of the world as you seek. It's a free country.
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- and many people are tied to NoVa by a job, by family, etc and did NOT choose it for its "feel")
Yes, how terrible "many people" have to forego such vital things as "feel" for a neighborhood in return for trifles such as jobs and family. This is also a critique I find often here and, yes, I do find it a tad on the whiney side.
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- I was trying to clarify something about the "feel of Brooklyn" which is much more nuanced than was implied in the post I was responding to.
I often find that people who think their thoughts and comments are more "nuanced" than those of others hold an exaggerated view of their own intellect. I hope that is not the case here.
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I do want to make parts of NoVa better and somewhat different than they are now
And therein lies the rub. We all have different views on what is "better."
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"It is better to light a candle, than to curse the darkness"
I do find the natural rhythm of the sun and the moon rather more enjoyable than the shrill cries of those who peddle a better candle. But I suppose to candle-peddlers, the whole world is an unending darkness, full of people who simply need to be convinced.
And therein lies the rub. We all have different views on what is "better." .
indeed. that is why we have elections. In Fairfax, Sharon Bulova, and a BOS who support the transformation of Tysons, the changes to parts of Merrifield, to Annandale, to Baileys and Seven Corners, who support the Columbia Pike street car and the Silver Line, and who support an extension of bike infrastructure, won in the last county elections. If you prefer something different, you may try to organize something (merely supporting the FC GOP will not be enough, as they support many of those changes as well)
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I do find the natural rhythm of the sun and the moon rather more enjoyable than the shrill cries of those who peddle a better candle. But I suppose to candle-peddlers, the whole world is an unending darkness, full of people who simply need to be convinced.
No human society is "natural" like the sun and moon. All human societies are human creations, and convincing each other of how they should be is the essence life in the polity. I suggest rereading Aristotle's Politics.
Lighting a candle, showing a vision, need not be shrill.
Wow, this is something from almost 3 months ago. I don't even remember what the earlier discussion was. Perhaps we should let this go and concentrate on newer topics.
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