would you walk more if there were more or better sidewalks near you?

[Bull Run Paradise]

I found myself walking more when I lived in Worcester, MA than where I am in the Bull Run area of Manassas even though both areas are hilly and have sidewalks and lots of cars parked along the road and driving in the street; even walking in winter is nice in Worcester.

I think it's just the older building styles of Worcester that are more charming, places to walk to are more intriguing (more independent Mom and Pop type shops rather than box stores that all sell the same brands) and landscaping is more mature. Also, the retail stores are more spread out in Worcester (smaller strip malls) where here there's Bull Run Shopping Center with lots to choose from it gets a little mind numbing and some smaller places get overlooked a lot.

Worcester also had a more cohesive small town charm where you could just be walking and happen upon a softball game being played at a ballfield along the street and find a place to sit and watch from the bleachers for a few minutes and then continue on your way. Here, everything seems a bit too compartmentalized (corner of Sudley Manor & Ashton Ave is all shopping/corner of Rosemary and Ashton is all apartments; would, perhaps, be better if it was broken up a little/all the ballfields here seem to be associated with one of the schools rather than being evenly dispersed throughout the area).

[brooklynborndad]

re distance to things

I agree with the folks discussing this point - the walking choice decision is complex, and involves distance, as well as many factors that impact how long a distance we are willing to walk - and I think these may vary for different purposes (a leisure walk, a leisure walk with a dog, a walk to the bus, a walk to the bank, a walk to buy groceries, etc)

However as many of the factors are controversial, I wanted to start with a more basic one, like sidewalks, that I would think we would have wide agreement on, and that impacts most types of walking.

[JD984]

Originally Posted by brooklynborndad

However as many of the factors are controversial, I wanted to start with a more basic one, like sidewalks, that I would think we would have wide agreement on, and that impacts most types of walking.

Well, either we'll have wide agreement on the topic, or you'll probably just decare that we do...

My residential neighborhood does not have sidewalks, but has more walkers than our prior neighborhood, which did have quite a few sidewalks. However, if our current neighborhood had sidewalks, there might be even more walkers, since more people would let their kids walk to places on their own. On the other hand, maybe there would be fewer walkers, if some of the parents who do walk around with their kids now decided they no longer needed to do so.

Hmm. This is complicated. Gonna get my grant application in the mail today!

[brooklynborndad]

Originally Posted by JEB77

Well, either we'll have wide agreement on the topic, or you'll probably just decare that we do...

My residential neighborhood does not have sidewalks, but has more walkers than our prior neighborhood, which did have quite a few sidewalks. However, if our current neighborhood had sidewalks, there might be even more walkers, since more people would let their kids walk to places on their own. On the other hand, maybe there would be fewer walkers, if some of the parents who do walk around with their kids now decided they no longer needed to do so.

Hmm. This is complicated. Gonna get my grant application in the mail today!

Huh? I didnt mean it would be universal. just thought this was a simpler, more basic thing than say, "small town charm" or even the impact of parallel high speed traffic, fraught as those are with culture war overtones, issues about autos, etc. I do realize that walkers take the lane in some places without sidewalks. I hate doing so myself, on side streets of Annandale, but I realize what makes people feel safe or unsafe differs.

I think that if fewer parents walked their kids, cause they felt sidewalks were safer, well that would show sidewalks DO make an area more pedestrian friendly. I suppose parents walking their kids is one example where pedestrian unfriendliness would mean more total people on the street. I dont think that an issue for the studies - those which looked at walk to school looked at how many kids walked to school, not at how many total people (including parents were in the group) - and the others focused on adults.

I do think the impact of sidewalk improvements on ped numbers is worthy of study (theres been a bit of tussle about funding ped improvements lately, in Congress) I don't think what you raise is an important complication though.

[brooklynborndad]

Originally Posted by JEB77

Well, either we'll have wide agreement on the topic, or you'll probably just decare that we do...

??????

[Yankeesfan]

There's a question of cause-and-effect. People who like to walk are likely to take the walkability of a neighborhood into consideration when deciding to move there. People who don't care about walking won't. They may end up in a walkable neighborhood because other factors drew them there, but are more likely than walkers to move into a less-walkable neighborhood because it's acceptable to them.

My area has narrow bike lanes painted on the road but almost no one uses them because they're still unsafe. Adding these lanes did nothing to increase the amount of bike-riding. People who are serious about biking around their neighborhoods choose to live elsewhere. The same might be true about walking. That doesn't mean that making neighborhoods more walkable is bad, but may not be worth the investment if that's the sole purpose -- as opposed to increasing walkability as part of a larger-scale project.

[brooklynborndad]

Originally Posted by Yankeesfan

There's a question of cause-and-effect. People who like to walk are likely to take the walkability of a neighborhood into consideration when deciding to move there. People who don't care about walking won't. They may end up in a walkable neighborhood because other factors drew them there, but are more likely than walkers to move into a less-walkable neighborhood because it's acceptable to them.

My area has narrow bike lanes painted on the road but almost no one uses them because they're still unsafe. Adding these lanes did nothing to increase the amount of bike-riding. People who are serious about biking around their neighborhoods choose to live elsewhere. The same might be true about walking. That doesn't mean that making neighborhoods more walkable is bad, but may not be worth the investment if that's the sole purpose -- as opposed to increasing walkability as part of a larger-scale project.

You raise a serious methodological question. I believe some of the studies have attempted to address it, but I havent analyzed each one.

Im curious where you are that has the unused bike lanes. I live in FFX which has big plans for striping lanes, but AFAICT is only doing so in places where cyclists (represented by FABB - Fairfax Advocates for Better Biking) has requested them. There are places where FFX has done it experimentally, and with long term connectivity goals in mind (Im thinking Beulah road, done a few years back).

I wonder why the bike lanes where you are are more unsafe than ones that are used in many parts of the region (including the ones on Gallows near Cottage, which I used recently)

[Carlingtonian]

Plenty of unused bike lanes in Arlington--Kirkwood (which connects Lee Highway near Spout Run with Washington Blvd) and new ones on westbound Lorcom Lane (from Spout Run), which are causing real problems in that the new (unused) bike lanes got rid of the turn lane for Nellie Custis, so that now there's a huge line of cars in the one lane remaining.

I'll admit it: I hate bike lanes. Put the bikes on separate bike paths or on the smaller, residential streets. I used to commute by bike, but I always stuck to the side of the road when I could not go at least as fast as the automobile traffic, rather than hold people up with delusions of being a motorcycle.

[brooklynborndad]

Originally Posted by Carlingtonian

Plenty of unused bike lanes in Arlington--Kirkwood (which connects Lee Highway near Spout Run with Washington Blvd) and new ones on westbound Lorcom Lane (from Spout Run), which are causing real problems in that the new (unused) bike lanes got rid of the turn lane for Nellie Custis, so that now there's a huge line of cars in the one lane remaining.

I'll admit it: I hate bike lanes. Put the bikes on separate bike paths or on the smaller, residential streets. I used to commute by bike, but I always stuck to the side of the road when I could not go at least as fast as the automobile traffic, rather than hold people up with delusions of being a motorcycle.

Side paths can have major safety issues (especially for faster cyclists) and smaller residential streets simply aren't alternatives in ungriddy places. That means riding in the street - generally cyclists only go the center of the lane where its safer than the side (because if you are on the side cars are more likely to try to pass WITHIN the lane, plus if you have a problem with the road, you have no place to swerve to). The issue of being able to keep up different paces on different terrains is interesting - IIUC FFX county is going to designate certain shoulders for cycling only use SPECIFICALLY on certain uphill sections where cyclists go particularly slowly and have less control.

But that all argues FOR bike lanes, so that bikes do not have to "take the lane". The places in FFX where the bike lanes (or sharrows) are proposed, at least ones near me, are precisely places where people already bike in the road.

[brooklynborndad]

Originally Posted by Carlingtonian

Plenty of unused bike lanes in Arlington--Kirkwood (which connects Lee Highway near Spout Run with Washington Blvd) and new ones on westbound Lorcom Lane (from Spout Run), which are causing real problems in that the new (unused) bike lanes got rid of the turn lane for Nellie Custis, so that now there's a huge line of cars in the one lane remaining.

re kirkwood

Disappearing Bike Lanes on Kirkland Rd in Arlington (yeah, the OP got the name wrong)

re Lorcom

New bike lane on Lorcom Lane

looks like that one had some disagreement within the cycling community.

If you have thoughts or suggestions, thats a forum with lots of information.