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Old 09-03-2012, 07:01 PM
 
Location: Tysons Corner
2,772 posts, read 4,307,292 times
Reputation: 1504

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Quote:
Originally Posted by spencgr View Post
I, too, am a-religious. With that, that doesn't negate the amount one ( who is in a position to) should donate. My donations in 2011 were about $6000, which, I feel, is actually an embarrassing low percentage for the amount I made. I have vowed to donate more. (for the record, I only claimed $1500).

Anyway, $1400 is lot of money, but a very small amount for someone who makes your salary and also feels that they are in a position to easily pay more taxes. If a few hundred dollars doesn't mean much to you, you should beef up your charitable donations.
That's very charitable of you. I aspire to do that, maybe this year we will donate more. I was being serious about knowing good charities in this area btw, I know its tangential but if you know of some Id like to know. Please DM if you have any suggestions.

 
Old 09-03-2012, 10:36 PM
 
1,784 posts, read 3,453,312 times
Reputation: 1295
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankeesfan View Post
Oh, I guess that's true. Think of those foolish folks who freed their slaves voluntarily, or declined to buy them, while slavery was still legal. Or those who treated minorities as equals before civil rights laws forced them too.

Those who think folks here in NoVA should pay more taxes -- well, they're here in NoVA and they are welcome to pay more, they don't have to wait for the government to force them to. TE can use his financial calculation skills to determine how much interest his $7200 (or prorated rate) will save the federal government in interest charges. I'll grant him bragging rights on that, after he writes his check .
Oh please, the 'principle' statement was in the context of government taxation, and probably a poor word choice at that. For you to try to take it to the extreme and equate it to slavery is a ridiculous comparison.

Though I don't particularly want to pay any more money to the government, my point was that I don't find it hypocritical or inconsistent for people to advocate for higher tax rates and then not voluntarily pay at those rates before the proposals are enacted. These are public policy decisions affecting total government revenue - hardly comparable in a moral sense to something like slavery.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spencgr
Every movement and new idea started with ONE person. If they had waited for an entire country to agree to further their personal beliefs, nothing ever would have happened. And most of the great movements involved a LOT of personal sacrifice from a few individuals at the very beginning. "Personal principle isn't enough if there is no actual change for our government" is one of the most ridiculous statements I've ever heard. You should stand for your own personal principles at all times.
See above.



Just think of all the numerous changes to various rules in sports that people advocated for while still playing within the bounds of the old rules so as not to put themselves at a disadvantage. There'd be no point if you were the only one doing it. (and I'm not talking about issues that get into ethical areas like recruiting or sportsmanship)


Again, I don't agree w/ TE's policy proposals, just that arguments like "well go ahead and mail your extra check to the IRS" are pretty weak.
 
Old 09-04-2012, 02:57 PM
 
2,688 posts, read 6,669,676 times
Reputation: 1291
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdenscold View Post
Again, I don't agree w/ TE's policy proposals, just that arguments like "well go ahead and mail your extra check to the IRS" are pretty weak.
Just simple logic and common sense, putting your money where your mouth is. From a local angle, I'd like to ask this question of my Congressman, Jim Moran, but he refuses to have any public townhall meetings where people could ask. So TE is ahead of him for having stayed in the discussion!
 
Old 09-04-2012, 03:03 PM
 
12,905 posts, read 15,616,422 times
Reputation: 9393
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdenscold View Post
Oh please, the 'principle' statement was in the context of government taxation, and probably a poor word choice at that. For you to try to take it to the extreme and equate it to slavery is a ridiculous comparison.

Though I don't particularly want to pay any more money to the government, my point was that I don't find it hypocritical or inconsistent for people to advocate for higher tax rates and then not voluntarily pay at those rates before the proposals are enacted. These are public policy decisions affecting total government revenue - hardly comparable in a moral sense to something like slavery.


See above.



Just think of all the numerous changes to various rules in sports that people advocated for while still playing within the bounds of the old rules so as not to put themselves at a disadvantage. There'd be no point if you were the only one doing it. (and I'm not talking about issues that get into ethical areas like recruiting or sportsmanship)


Again, I don't agree w/ TE's policy proposals, just that arguments like "well go ahead and mail your extra check to the IRS" are pretty weak.

I have the same viewpoint as you do regarding this issue "go ahead and pay the extra taxes." I think people need play by the sytems rules and guidelines but that doesn't mean they have to agree with them or not work to change them.
 
Old 09-04-2012, 04:10 PM
 
1,784 posts, read 3,453,312 times
Reputation: 1295
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankeesfan View Post
Just simple logic and common sense, putting your money where your mouth is.
Did you even read my post, or just skip to the end and start responding?
 
Old 09-04-2012, 04:21 PM
 
163 posts, read 313,982 times
Reputation: 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by tysonsengineer View Post
Yea thats exactly what I just said. I'm upper middle class, about to be in the very group Comstock is talking about with 1 or 2 more regular pay raises, so THAT argument is a flat out lie. Maybe its that you don't understand how much I love this country, and that I would be willing to pay that money because I know if it werent for all that this country has done, built, set up, and continues to aspire that all I am holding is monopoly money anyways.

To NNM

First class tickets to Europe go for 2500 not 25000 to most major locations... dunno which airline you have been flying. I don't need to leave the country know why? Because the "tax cuts" in place right now that i am against are temporary. They were literally labeled temporary tax relief. Not permanent tax cuts. Get it? So as far as I am concerned that tax rate is fine, as soon as that expires.

Or in a world that actually works like the founding fathers wanted, the other side could concede part of this tax rate for the benefit of having part of it permanently instated and the democrats could concede that spending cuts back to 2007 levels are needed over the next 5 years (ie a 5 year reduction back to 8% less spending) so that this doesnt hit us all at once like a fiscal hammer destroying the recovery we have.

Anyone who is against compromise can go ahead and get the hell out though, I dont take that back

I also don't take back that if you have a family of 4 or 5 and have all the other expenses people brought up that they need to get a tax advisor because in reality you need to be making far more than 250k to be part of that bracket with all of that going on.
So you "love the country more" and you want to show it by paying more taxes. Go ahead. So if people don't agree and "compromise" which translates abandoning their own beliefs and adopting yours just for the sake of "comity" they can go to hell.

That makes sense?
 
Old 09-04-2012, 05:12 PM
 
Location: Tysons Corner
2,772 posts, read 4,307,292 times
Reputation: 1504
Quote:
Originally Posted by newvadad View Post
So you "love the country more" and you want to show it by paying more taxes. Go ahead. So if people don't agree and "compromise" which translates abandoning their own beliefs and adopting yours just for the sake of "comity" they can go to hell.

That makes sense?
Ah a fan of sequestration. Compromise is what built this country, we give that up and start "sticking to our guns like good ole bushy" and we will end up more in a hole. It is the mixture of beliefs, the mixture of ideals, and the mixture of rules that make this country great.

When we spend 3 trillion fighting a war I was vehemently against I didnt stop paying taxes. I voiced my opposition but I remained an American willing to compromise in the hope that the country would have better days. Compromise is not a dirty word, unfortunately the GOP through the Norquist pact and Teabaggers ... and to some extent the democrats although the president tried very hard the first two years to appease the GOP, are against solving the countries problems.

I am FOR solving our problems via compromise. Seeing as we determined that the difference for people making 250k would equal exactly 0 dollars, and that people making 300k taxable income would be facing a whopping 1500 less in their account, I dont think this is "effecting trickle down economics". In return for that compromise there should be significant cuts to entitlements and glut spending in Washington.

Most economists not working for fox news agree that those terms would be a double boon to the economy, not the "worst solution" as the Koch brothers would have us think.
 
Old 09-04-2012, 08:40 PM
 
2,688 posts, read 6,669,676 times
Reputation: 1291
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdenscold View Post
Did you even read my post, or just skip to the end and start responding?
I did, and I didn't agree. That's why it's called a discussion . Anyone who thinks taxes should be raised should just go ahead and pay more.

With regard to your sports analogy, whatever sport they would be playing would not be set up for whatever rule change they were advocating and so would not be able to handle their unilateral adoption of new rules. However the federal government IS set up to accept voluntary contributions so there's nothing stopping anyone from putting their words into action.

Probably many state and local governments accept contributions too. So have at it, all you folks who want higher taxes!
 
Old 09-04-2012, 08:45 PM
 
2,688 posts, read 6,669,676 times
Reputation: 1291
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristineVA View Post
I have the same viewpoint as you do regarding this issue "go ahead and pay the extra taxes." I think people need play by the sytems rules and guidelines
And the system's rules and guidelines permit voluntary contributions to the federal treasury. So there's no excuse not to do it for those who think it should be done. Lead by example! A grassroots movement of higher tax advocates paying higher taxes! It's the very essence of freedom and democracy in action.
 
Old 09-04-2012, 09:04 PM
 
1,784 posts, read 3,453,312 times
Reputation: 1295
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankeesfan View Post
With regard to your sports analogy, whatever sport they would be playing would not be set up for whatever rule change they were advocating and so would not be able to handle their unilateral adoption of new rules. However the federal government IS set up to accept voluntary contributions so there's nothing stopping anyone from putting their words into action.
Huh? I can think of numerous examples of rule changes that players/teams could impose upon themselves while still falling within current rules (and that would be to their detriment). You really can't imagine a single one?
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