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Old 09-18-2012, 09:26 AM
 
437 posts, read 1,072,079 times
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My bet is that there is more HOV cheating on 66 outside the Beltway as people can try to get off into the regular lanes if they see police. They also won't be caught at an on-off ramp which can be done on 395 and 66 inside the Beltway.

The only exceptions I know on 395 are the hybrids and motorcycles. I also have seen a lot of police/government vehicles from other jurisdictions (marked and unmarked) that seem to get a pass. 66 has the exemption for Dulles airport traffic also.

They may also have kids in the car, when I was a kid my dad used to get pulled over taking my brother and I into DC for school as we sat in the back and if we were slouched down the troopers wouldn't see us. The same thing would happen to me a few years back on 66 when I was picking up my infant daughter at day care in Arlington. I got a lot of dirty looks too! People get nasty if they think you're cheating (and in a vehicle with tint windows others can't see the baby seat of course).

But a lot of the cars you're seeing are cheaters too I'm sure.
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Old 09-18-2012, 09:39 AM
 
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Another big loophole is law enforcement officers. The law was intended to rightly exempt official police vehicles, but it has turned into a free pass for any LEO commuting to work in their personal vehicle. I see lots of clearly non government cars (Honda Accords,etc.) heading into D.C. with a removable strobe light on the dashboard. When you add up MPD, Capitol Police, Secret Service, FBI, and all the Inspector General Office people it's a huge number.
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Old 09-18-2012, 10:25 AM
 
Location: Prince William County, VA
664 posts, read 1,619,322 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bornindc View Post
They may also have kids in the car, when I was a kid my dad used to get pulled over taking my brother and I into DC for school as we sat in the back and if we were slouched down the troopers wouldn't see us. The same thing would happen to me a few years back on 66 when I was picking up my infant daughter at day care in Arlington. I got a lot of dirty looks too! People get nasty if they think you're cheating (and in a vehicle with tint windows others can't see the baby seat of course).
That was my first thought--I've driven in the carpool lanes of various freeways with up to 4 kids in the back of my van--but I bet from other drivers point of view, it looks like I am alone in the car.
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Old 09-19-2012, 09:40 AM
 
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Originally Posted by HereinVA View Post
That was my first thought--I've driven in the carpool lanes of various freeways with up to 4 kids in the back of my van--but I bet from other drivers point of view, it looks like I am alone in the car.
Should that even count? That is to say, would your four children have otherwise driven their own cars separately? Isn't the point of the minimum? - to take vehicles off the road to ease congestion and pollution?
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Old 09-19-2012, 10:10 AM
 
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Originally Posted by scottfs View Post
Should that even count? That is to say, would your four children have otherwise driven their own cars separately? Isn't the point of the minimum? - to take vehicles off the road to ease congestion and pollution?
While that may be the point, you can't define the law as "3 or more people who would otherwise be driving their own vehicle", as there is no way to effectively enforce (or even monitor) this. It would require LEOs to determine the intent or capability of the passengers to drive their own vehicle.

Not everyone on a bus would be driving their own vehicle. Some people don't have licenses or cars.
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Old 09-19-2012, 10:14 AM
 
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What I don't get is if you want to cut pollution put the hybrid cars/suv's in the traffic lanes and let them run off electric power, not gas. Put the tractor-trailers in the HOV lanes and get them out of the way and they will get better gas milage and lower pollution that way also. Traffic would probably run better, especially if they did it on I-95 all the way to Dumfries.
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Old 09-19-2012, 10:22 AM
 
564 posts, read 1,274,125 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spencgr View Post
While that may be the point, you can't define the law as "3 or more people who would otherwise be driving their own vehicle", as there is no way to effectively enforce (or even monitor) this. It would require LEOs to determine the intent or capability of the passengers to drive their own vehicle.

Not everyone on a bus would be driving their own vehicle. Some people don't have licenses or cars.
Doesn't have to be that complex, just change it to 3 people over the age of 16 or 3 adults. Then if the cops saw a one person with 3 small children, clearly the police could pull them over.
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Old 09-19-2012, 11:01 AM
 
1,784 posts, read 2,982,410 times
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Originally Posted by scottfs View Post
Doesn't have to be that complex, just change it to 3 people over the age of 16 or 3 adults. Then if the cops saw a one person with 3 small children, clearly the police could pull them over.
There's pros and cons to this, because one could argue an important objective of our transportation system is to effectively move the most number of people around to their various destinations. So a family of 4 in a car being held up by a bunch of single people in cars could create some inefficiencies - even if those children couldn't otherwise drive themselves.

This assumes the kids need to get to a specific destination, and aren't just being towed around by their parents, and that's where enforcement would break down.
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Old 09-19-2012, 11:07 AM
 
Location: Fairfax County
1,534 posts, read 3,315,521 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bornindc View Post
They may also have kids in the car, when I was a kid my dad used to get pulled over taking my brother and I into DC for school as we sat in the back and if we were slouched down the troopers wouldn't see us. The same thing would happen to me a few years back on 66 when I was picking up my infant daughter at day care in Arlington. I got a lot of dirty looks too! People get nasty if they think you're cheating (and in a vehicle with tint windows others can't see the baby seat of course).
When my kids were in daycare, they would wave to the state trooper enforcing HOV on the ramp from 495N to 66E. He would have a very stern look on his face and would start to point me over towards the shoulder, then see my kids happily waving in the second row of my minivan, and then a big grin would appear on his face as he waved us by.
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Old 09-19-2012, 11:28 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottfs View Post
Doesn't have to be that complex, just change it to 3 people over the age of 16 or 3 adults. Then if the cops saw a one person with 3 small children, clearly the police could pull them over.
Officers cannot tell the exact age of passengers just by looking.
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