U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Covid-19 Information Page
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Virginia > Northern Virginia
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 09-24-2012, 01:14 PM
 
Location: The Port City is rising.
8,874 posts, read 11,270,666 times
Reputation: 2575

Advertisements

and note - whatever your opinion of the "Idaho stop" - its either safe or unsafe, legal or illegal, a good idea or a bad idea.

it is NOT safer for a sidewalk cyclist than for a road cyclist, its not legal in Virginia for a sidewalk cyclist, and its not a better idea for a sidewalk cyclist.

I dont think theres a connection to the fact that one wants to be treated like a vehicle on the road. While road cyclists DO assert the rights of a vehicle on local roads, which is their legal right, the fact is that bikes and motor vehicles are NOT considered the same under Va law (or in other states, AFAIK) On the one hand bikes are not allowed on limited access highways, including most parkways. OTOH motor vehicles are not allowed in bike lanes, on multiuse paths, or on those sidewalks where bikes are allowed. Bikes as a general rule are not allowed to park in auto parking spaces and vice versa. Share the road is the law, but it is not premised on bikes and motor vehicles being identical in all respects.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-24-2012, 01:26 PM
 
Location: The Port City is rising.
8,874 posts, read 11,270,666 times
Reputation: 2575
wrt to red lights - IIUC some traffic lights use motion detection of cars to determine when to change, and many such are not adapted detect a bicycle. Ergo a cyclist would have to wait till a car came along to get the light, however long that took.

I do all my riding in NoVa and DC, where traffic is heavy enough at all places where there are traffic lights that that has never been an issue for me (Im not even sure if our traffic lights work like that)
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-24-2012, 01:47 PM
 
Location: Northern Virginia
251 posts, read 813,207 times
Reputation: 129
You raise some very valid points brooklyn. I guess it's just a point of frustration for me, as there are many more bicyclists up here than where we have lived previously. I frequently see "near misses" with bicyclists going through intersections without even a glance around them. I live near the GW Parkway, and many days there are bicyclists on the road instead of the parallel multi-use path. Similarly, when I am running or walking on the path, bicyclists zoom by, cutting it too close, with no warning and well above the posted speed limit.
Many years ago, I hit a bicyclist who was traveling in the far right hand lane wearing headphones, and turned left across several lanes in front of me. I pulled over to the shoulder afterwards and got out to assess injuries and damage, and watched the bicyclist pedal off without even a glance back.
But, to be fair, I see idiots behind the wheel every day too. And idiot pedestrians jay walking. No, I'm not a perfect driver, no one is, but some days I seem to be the only person using a turn signal, coming to a complete stop, etc. Everyone thinks they're Lance Armstrong or Mario Andretti. Does anyone follow traffic laws anymore??
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-24-2012, 01:49 PM
 
Location: Northern Virginia
251 posts, read 813,207 times
Reputation: 129
Oh and I understand your red light argument in a few circumstances, but if I'm seeing bicyclists go through red lights, then there are obviously cars around.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-24-2012, 02:03 PM
 
Location: The Port City is rising.
8,874 posts, read 11,270,666 times
Reputation: 2575
Quote:
Originally Posted by elacklen View Post
Oh and I understand your red light argument in a few circumstances, but if I'm seeing bicyclists go through red lights, then there are obviously cars around.
I see cyclists when I walk and when I cycle, as well as when I drive. I did not assume you drive everywhere.

The same point of course would apply to stop signs - when driving you will not see those cyclists who do rolling stops at them ONLY when no motor vehicles are present.

Im only trying to make the point that there is a range of approaches - there are cyclists who stop at all stop signs regardless, and ones who do so only when there are not motor vehicles nearby - I would say that the those two groups together make a significant portion of cyclists. There are also some who will do so when there are motor vehicles nearby, but only when they can do so safely - good visibility and no vehicles approaching on the intersecting street. And there are some who are reckless. And there are a range of intermediate ways of riding - for example near where I live in Annandale, there is a service road that has stop signs at very frequent intervals, and has limited traffic at most, and very good visibilility, and the intersecting traffic is slow. You can roll through at least some of the stops, or you can have an excruciating time riding with any speed. I am not saying what folks ought to do, just trying to clarify WHY people do what they do.

Can you imagine as a driver, putting up with all the traffic around here, and then never driving even 1 MPH over the posted speed on a sunny day on a road with minimal traffic? Im sure there are some folks who are that obedient to the speed limits, but my sense is they are few around here. Yet no one would suggest based on that that all drivers are rude jerks, or that most roads should be off limits to them. And of course its pretty rare for a cyclist to ride above the speed limit on artererials around here. bikes and cars ARE different, and the infractions they are most likely to engage in are therefore different.

everyone should ride and drive safely. A mass campaign to crackdown on "safe" Idaho stops would make about as much sense as a campaign to crackdown on folks going 1 mph over the speed limit. ANd yes, Im sure both have occurred, here and there.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-24-2012, 02:07 PM
 
Location: The Port City is rising.
8,874 posts, read 11,270,666 times
Reputation: 2575
Quote:
Originally Posted by elacklen View Post
You raise some very valid points brooklyn. I guess it's just a point of frustration for me, as there are many more bicyclists up here than where we have lived previously. I frequently see "near misses" with bicyclists going through intersections without even a glance around them. I live near the GW Parkway, and many days there are bicyclists on the road instead of the parallel multi-use path. Similarly, when I am running or walking on the path, bicyclists zoom by, cutting it too close, with no warning and well above the posted speed limit.
surely that shows you the cyclists dilemma. Where should a fast cyclist go? You dont think they belong on the road, but rather on the MUP. But you also see why going fast on the MUP is a bad idea (and actually its not only because of conflicts with peds, but because some sharp turns etc on the MUP make it a poor idea, IIRC). (note I am not that fast yet, and so I take the MVT, but havent been on it south of old town in a long time)

As for the cyclists who dont glance around themselves, wear headphones, they are certainly a danger, as are drivers like that. At least the cyclists in the roads doing that are mosly a danger to themselves.

Last edited by brooklynborndad; 09-24-2012 at 02:49 PM..
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-24-2012, 02:11 PM
 
Location: The Port City is rising.
8,874 posts, read 11,270,666 times
Reputation: 2575
Quote:
Originally Posted by elacklen View Post
with no warning and well above the posted speed limit.
no warning is terrible.

I bought a bell so I could ring it instead of/in addition to calling "bike passing". In bike forums theres extensive debate about the merits of bell vs "bike passing" vs "on your left"
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-24-2012, 02:19 PM
 
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
14,131 posts, read 28,295,503 times
Reputation: 6840
Quote:
Originally Posted by brooklynborndad View Post
no warning is terrible.

I bought a bell so I could ring it instead of/in addition to calling "bike passing". In bike forums theres extensive debate about the merits of bell vs "bike passing" vs "on your left"
I'm an "on your lefter" but almost pulled off the trail at Belle View to pick up a bell at Spokes, Etc. Am still planning to do that unless I can find a clown horn in the meantime.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-24-2012, 02:31 PM
 
Location: The Port City is rising.
8,874 posts, read 11,270,666 times
Reputation: 2575
Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVA1990 View Post
I'm an "on your lefter" but almost pulled off the trail at Belle View to pick up a bell at Spokes, Etc. Am still planning to do that unless I can find a clown horn in the meantime.

problem is a lot of pedestrians think "on your left" means that THEY should move to their left. apparently that was what happened in the tragedy on 4 mile run trail - "on your left" works for warning on other cyclists, and I guess for runners.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-24-2012, 07:02 PM
 
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
14,131 posts, read 28,295,503 times
Reputation: 6840
Quote:
Originally Posted by brooklynborndad View Post
problem is a lot of pedestrians think "on your left" means that THEY should move to their left. apparently that was what happened in the tragedy on 4 mile run trail - "on your left" works for warning on other cyclists, and I guess for runners.
I've never noticed any confusion and I ride the trail about every day. Maybe those on the Mount Vernon trail are smarter. And what are these confused folks going to do if all they hear is a bell?
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Settings
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2020 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Virginia > Northern Virginia
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:17 PM.

© 2005-2020, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top