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Old 10-01-2012, 09:34 AM
 
882 posts, read 1,859,306 times
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Of course, one could look to public figures for attitudes @ bike riders. Say, Cher, for example: https://twitter.com/cher?tw_i=252443...w_p=tweetembed

:-)
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Old 10-01-2012, 03:05 PM
 
Location: The Port City is rising.
8,874 posts, read 11,246,821 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEB77 View Post
The area around Grand Central is a huge hub of activity. I doubt very much Arielmina was looking to "door" someone for sport, but if I were biking near Grand Central - which I would not do in any event - I would be very cautious and not expect someone coming out of a cab that stopped moving to anticipate where I planned to ride.

I don't have any problems with sharing the roads with bikers where I drive in NoVa. I've mentioned before that I find parts of downtown a bit more tricky because some biker riders (and they may be a minority) do not obey traffic laws in the area near Farragut Square.

I did not say Arielmina doors people for sport, though her post indicated that she found the incident funny and that she did not think there was an obligation to check.

I personally try to do "defensive" biking and even riding down a road in FFX county with on street parking, if I must ride in the door zone, I will try to look to see whos getting into cars, who's sitting in them, etc. A wise cyclist (like a wise driver) will assume tyhe other guy will make a mistake. However that does not relieve the other guys of the obligation to try to avoid those mistakes.

Personally I have not biked in Manhattan since Gerald Ford was president, but given that Grand Central is the home of, you know, a railroad station, as well as many jobs, shops, etc, I can imagine many reasons why someone would be cycling there.

And yes, cyclists who disobey traffic laws generally do make things more difficult (though mainly the endanger themselves) as do drivers and pedestrians who disobey traffic laws. Just the other day a drunk driver sent a pedestrian in Clarendon to the trauma center, for example.
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Old 10-01-2012, 03:11 PM
 
Location: The Port City is rising.
8,874 posts, read 11,246,821 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djplourd View Post
There are tons of bicyclists where I live and generally I don't have an issue with them. There's one mile long, hilly, curvy, tree-lined stretch (with a separate paved path) but the majority of bicyclists stick to the road. The path is never very busy (nothing like MVT) but the serious bikers (by serious I mean the one's with the nice road bikes, Tour de France bike outfits, etc.) can't be bothered to use the path!

And no, I'm not that bothered because I might get stuck behind them for a few extra minutes. I'm more concerned about their safety than they seem to be. In fact I'm surprised that one of them doesn't get run over every weekend!

one more time - the majority of car-bike crashes occur at intersections - getting right hooked is much more common than getting bumped from behind by a vehicle. Riders in the road are more visible, and arguably less likely to get right hooked, than someone coming out from a side path.

Now I personally will still avoid the road if there is a sidepath, and the road is fairly nasty in terms of its width, volume and speed of auto traffic, places for an auto to pass, etc. I am one of that huge number of cyclists who very much like GOOD paths and trails. But then I also don't cycle that fast, and I will even dismount at a particularly nasty intersection (a chance to catch my breath). But for the fastest cyclists, my style of riding does not necessarily make sense.

I am not concerned about guys with nice road bikes taking the road in places of a path (they generally know what they are doing and why) but about the folks who ride against traffic, who ride at night with inadequate lights in dark clothing, etc, and similar things I see in Annandale.
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Old 10-01-2012, 05:39 PM
 
5,105 posts, read 9,036,399 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brooklynborndad View Post
I did not say Arielmina doors people for sport, though her post indicated that she found the incident funny and that she did not think there was an obligation to check.

I personally try to do "defensive" biking and even riding down a road in FFX county with on street parking, if I must ride in the door zone, I will try to look to see whos getting into cars, who's sitting in them, etc. A wise cyclist (like a wise driver) will assume tyhe other guy will make a mistake. However that does not relieve the other guys of the obligation to try to avoid those mistakes.

Personally I have not biked in Manhattan since Gerald Ford was president, but given that Grand Central is the home of, you know, a railroad station, as well as many jobs, shops, etc, I can imagine many reasons why someone would be cycling there.

And yes, cyclists who disobey traffic laws generally do make things more difficult (though mainly the endanger themselves) as do drivers and pedestrians who disobey traffic laws. Just the other day a drunk driver sent a pedestrian in Clarendon to the trauma center, for example.
I thought the thread was about cycling in NoVa, not driving. Many cyclists in this area obey the rules; some do not, and generally go about conducting themselves as if they think they have nine lives.

I know we should all be as attuned to the needs of cyclists as you (it's like Goofus and Gallant here), but I expect that the sheer randomness of the occasion is what made it seem funny to Arielmina. Some cyclists seem to emerge out of nowhere. Ask any cab driver.
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Old 10-01-2012, 06:42 PM
 
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
14,131 posts, read 28,228,867 times
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Interesting article in Sunday's NY Times about how unnecessary and actually harmful bicycle helmets are to urban cycling. America's obsession with them reduces the use of the bike share bikes because people think they need a helmet and don't happen to have one at times they could be using the bikes. Helmets aren't generally worn in urban areas in other countries like France, apparently to no ill effect.
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Old 10-01-2012, 07:05 PM
 
Location: The Port City is rising.
8,874 posts, read 11,246,821 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEB77 View Post
I thought the thread was about cycling in NoVa, not driving. Many cyclists in this area obey the rules; some do not, and generally go about conducting themselves as if they think they have nine lives.

I know we should all be as attuned to the needs of cyclists as you (it's like Goofus and Gallant here), but I expect that the sheer randomness of the occasion is what made it seem funny to Arielmina. Some cyclists seem to emerge out of nowhere. Ask any cab driver.

the thread is about cycling and driving, and their interaction, and about getting drivers to understand the cyclist's perspective better. '

Since you seem particularly interested in cycling in NYC, this might be interesting.



New York City Bike Wars - YouTube
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Old 10-01-2012, 07:49 PM
 
141 posts, read 244,730 times
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i don't understand why bikers/cyclists enjoy riding on a narrow road during rush hour traffic while being honked at and almost pushed off the side of the road - or do they do it just to do it and show motorist that they have guts? seems much more enjoyable to bike on a nice, quiet, scenic road away from cars and even away from other bikers.
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Old 10-02-2012, 07:55 AM
 
Location: The Port City is rising.
8,874 posts, read 11,246,821 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by govmoneynvegas View Post
i don't understand why bikers/cyclists enjoy riding on a narrow road during rush hour traffic while being honked at and almost pushed off the side of the road - or do they do it just to do it and show motorist that they have guts? seems much more enjoyable to bike on a nice, quiet, scenic road away from cars and even away from other bikers.

Why do drivers ride on the beltway at rush hour, when driving some scenic back road in the shenandoah valley would be more pleasant?

People do it because they have to get somewhere. Most cyclists riding at rush hour are commuters, as far as I can tell.

wrt dooring

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Door_zone

"In New York City, seven bicyclist fatalities in the ten year period between 1996 and 2005 were from striking an open door or swerving to avoid one. "

Last edited by brooklynborndad; 10-02-2012 at 09:18 AM..
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Old 10-02-2012, 09:24 AM
 
Location: The Port City is rising.
8,874 posts, read 11,246,821 times
Reputation: 2575
Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVA1990 View Post
Interesting article in Sunday's NY Times about how unnecessary and actually harmful bicycle helmets are to urban cycling. America's obsession with them reduces the use of the bike share bikes because people think they need a helmet and don't happen to have one at times they could be using the bikes. Helmets aren't generally worn in urban areas in other countries like France, apparently to no ill effect.

given the heavy usage of Cabi (they just had another record month) Im not sure that the "obsession" is having a marked impact on bike share use here (in Melbourne, where bike share did poorly, the issue was not obsession but a mandatory helmet law) It seems some Cabi users do manage to keep a helmet with them, and the others make the judgement to ride without one.

I'm somewhat in between - I always wear my helmet (if I ended up a fatality while not wearing a helmet my wife would kill me) but I am very sympathetic to the arguments that oever focus on helmets detracts from the number of cyclists, and in so doing actually reduces bike safety (since critical mass adds to cyclist safety) (not to mention the health benefits of cycling in terms of CVD, etc)

There has to be someway to signal that while I wear a helmet, I consider this a net life extending activity.
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Old 10-02-2012, 10:41 AM
 
Location: The Port City is rising.
8,874 posts, read 11,246,821 times
Reputation: 2575
Quote:
Originally Posted by JEB77 View Post
I thought the thread was about cycling in NoVa, not driving. Many cyclists in this area obey the rules; some do not, and generally go about conducting themselves as if they think they have nine lives.
Law breaking by cyclists falls, IMO, into three categories
A. things that endanger themselves (salmoning, riding at night without lights, blowing through red lights, etc)
B. things that don't particularly endanger themselves but that annoy drivers (taking the center of the lane when not warranted for safety reasons, riding more than two abreast, etc)
C. Things that are illegal, but that in fact don't endanger or inconvenience anyone (Idaho stops)


I think the percentage of cyclists who do A is actually rather small, and many are probably folks who have had little or no bike education, and may have adopted biking out of a lack of transportation options. I think the number who do A is overestimated, for the reasons mentioned in the article in the OP.

I think what drivers complain about most is B (and also LEGAL things cyclists do that delay them, notably taking the lane where it IS warranted for safety reasons)

I think there are very few cyclists who won't do an Idaho stop at least in some places (arguably it can be safer than trying to come to a sudden stop in some locations) - its probably as safe in places with liight, slow traffic and good visibility as the widespread driver infraction of going a couple of MPH over the speed limit - but it also angers drivers who see someone doing "something a driver would get a ticket for" (of course cyclists DO get tickets for it, and drivers often do the same at stops in quiet areas without getting ticketed)


I am ever more swayed to the notion that what would really improve driver-cyclist understanding is if more people cycled, because that would mean a higher proportion of drivers would be cyclists - Ive seen it claimed that that is one reason for good safety records in high cycling places in europe like amsterdam and copenhagen.
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