Right Turn On Red? Or Not?? (Alexandria: school, dangerous, vs.)

[boyd888]

I do see people not going right on red quite often. I think it's funny that people won't turn right on red, but will freely make u-turns everywhere even when there are signs against it.

There's a difference between laying on the horn angrily at someone vs a "friendly" quick double honk like "hey man it's ok to turn on red here." I think the double honk is fine, but I try not to get mad if they don't take the hint.

[HokieFan]

Originally Posted by spencgr

Other cars can and will break the law like this in any intersection. That is why you proceed when there are no cars, or the cars are at a safe distance. The intersection you reference actually has about 2/10 of a mile between it and the other light (and the hill). I would think that is enough time/ space to advance if there are no cars present.

There is. But if there is a car in the center lane, I will wait until it has cleared the intersection before making that right. The speed limit through that stretch is 25mph - I'd venture to guess through traffic is averages 35mph - 40mph (when the prior light is also green).

There are some, more agressive drivers who will honk their frustrating in a situation like that.

I agree if the opportunity to safely make a right is there - then take it.

[car54]

Originally Posted by spencgr

I will only buy this argument if you give me a specific example of an intersection that VDOT felt safe, but you do not. I tend to find that VDOT certainly errs on the side of (much) caution.

Near Clifton....Route 123 northbound at the Little Ox/Chapel Rd intersection. Right on red is allowed turning onto NB Rt 123 from Little Ox. Posted speed on 123 is 50mph...so traffic is running 60+. Rt 123 curves approaching Little Ox and you can see no more than a couple hundred yards down 123.

I do not turn right on red there....they can honk....they can get out and we can duke it out....but I ain't turning on red there.

[stpickrell]

I've been honked at by morons for stopping at a No Right on red sign. Once they even went into the center lane to get around me and then turned right.

[alibaba1579]

Originally Posted by stpickrell

I've been honked at by morons for stopping at a No Right on red sign. Once they even went into the center lane to get around me and then turned right.

That happens to me quite often too. So annoying. Also, I just about get rear-ended every time I come to a complete stop on red before turning right. You wouldn't believe the people that treat right turn on reds like a full green light. Seems like they don't even slow down half the time. Don't get me started on stop signs. They're not a suggestion people - you're actually suppsed to stop. All the way. Ughhhh.

[brooklynborndad]

Originally Posted by spencgr

I agree with this, too. Just like turning right at a stop sign. You go when it is safe to do so. I am certainly not advocating making risky decisions.

You are permitted if its safe to do so, you are not required (and what some people around here seem to forget, you are required to come to a full stop first)


IIUC right turns on red were first legalized during the 1970s gas crisis as a way to reduce idling, and hence improve fuel efficiency. They are a problem, in general, for pedestrians (and cyclists) and are illegal in NYC except where posted. They are also illegal in the EU except where posted.

Where the Sidewalk Starts: Are Right Turns on Red Dangerous for Pedestrians?

Given that most of NoVa is not that urban, and does not have that many pedestrians, I think keeping the right turn on red is legal as the default, is justified.

However the driver making the right turn must, IMO, be allowed complete discretion whether to make the turn or not, period. There is no right to have the person ahead of you make the turn, and honking for this is not justified (BTW, is honking for reasons other than safety ever legal in Va?)

[brooklynborndad]

Originally Posted by alibaba1579

That happens to me quite often too. So annoying. Also, I just about get rear-ended every time I come to a complete stop on red before turning right. You wouldn't believe the people that treat right turn on reds like a full green light. Seems like they don't even slow down half the time. Don't get me started on stop signs. They're not a suggestion people - you're actually suppsed to stop. All the way. Ughhhh.

I have noted this is well. There are many scofflaw drivers around here. However people should still have a right to drive in the road. We should not punish law abiding drivers for the acts of the scofflaws.

I think an education campaign would be useful.

[jillabean]

Originally Posted by car54

4- you are driving a large, slow accelerating vehicle that makes turning on red unsafe (Metro's probable
rationale).

5- there are intersections where right on red should be prohibited, but isn't. (bad sightlines)

I would like to add a -5a- if I could. Just because you have good sightlines, doesn't mean the driver in front of you who isn't turning does.


I often get honked at because there is an intersection in Alexandria where you can make a right on red, but I never do. There is a house on that intersection, to my left with high front stairs. When I am in my car, I just can't see what's coming over down the road since those stairs block the view. And those stairs come right to the edge of the sidewalk (so I would have to stick my nose out into the lane to see). And to complicate things, people are supposed to be going 25 but they typically are going 35 or even 40. I just can't see and I am not pulling out blind into that kind of Russian Roulette.

But people in higher sitting trucks (SUVs and trucks) CAN see over those stairs. So they can see it's clear and get mad at me, not realizing I can't see that it's clear.

It's not that I don't have driving skills--it's that I am defensive when I drive and won't pull out blind.

[dkf747]

Another intersection: N Pershing Dr at George Mason in Arlington. If you're heading east on N Pershing and want to make a right on red onto George Mason, the sight line is blocked by a construction fence. If you make the turn, it's possible someone behind you could run into you.

[simbak345]

I guess since nobody else has, I'll post what the VA DMV driving manual says:

http://www.dmv.virginia.gov/webdoc/pdf/dmv39c.pdf

Traffic Signals
Traffic signals apply to drivers, motorcycle riders, bicyclists,
moped-riders and pedestrians.

Red light: At a red light, come to a complete
stop before you reach the intersection, stop line
or crosswalk. Remain stopped unless turns are
allowed on red. (emphasized my me)

Right turn on red: At some intersections you may turn right
while the traffic light is red. Before turning, you must come to
a complete stop. Look both ways and yield the right-of-way to
pedestrians and other traffic. Be sure to check for less visible
vehicles such as motorcycles, bicycles and mopeds. You may
not turn right if signs are posted at the intersection that read
“No Turn on Red.”

Left turn on red: You may turn left at a red light if you are
on a one-way street and turning left onto another one-way
street. Before turning, you must come to a complete stop.
Look both ways and yield the right-of-way to pedestrians and
other traffic. Be sure to check for less visible vehicles such as
motorcycles, bicycles and mopeds.

I don't read that to be a voluntary option. "Remain stopped unless turns are
allowed on red." So, if turns are permitted (aka not explicitly restricted), you should proceed when able.
I know that people get upset when people drive below the posted speed limit, but I understand that it is posted at a limit and it is perfectly okay for people to drive 35 in a 45 (no matter how frustrating and angry it may make me!).