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You bring up a fair point. I still think there is a divide between white and blue collar values in this country.
A good case of this is my previous residence of Louisville. Three sides of town. South Louisville (below I-264), mostly white and blue collar, West Louisville (west of I-65 and inside I-264), mostly black and blue collar/working-class, and East Louisville (east of I-65 inside I-264) mostly white and white collar and upper class. I lived in East Louisville but in a very inexpensive older apt. Pretty much, these sides of town do not get along. South and West Louisville hate the East End with a passion and the East End hates them back.
I think it is inevitable that the classes will be more in conflict today than ever, since everyone is in survival mode these days. I think it will be more evident in some places, Northern VA is one of them.
It's just an educated guess because I grew up in a friendly yet largely blue-collar area where people saw little value in higher education (hence why Scranton, PA is now struggling so much economically) and lived in NoVA, where I regularly saw some (not all, of course) white-collar, educated, "progressive" people putting down the blue-collars and service workers as being "beneath" them. I have a pretty unique perspective being an intelligent and educated person who has worked in positions ranging from Federal auditor to parking lot grunt to financial consultant to delivery driver. I find a way to bridge the gap no matter what position I'm in so I can get along with both white-collars and blue-collars, but this has also permitted me to see that there is the existence of such a gap, as much as some would like to downplay it.
I view NoVA's issues as being largely transplant-driven. To reiterate I think some of these people who were raised to think they were "special" in smaller areas like Ottumwa, IA; Bay City, MI; or Pocatello, ID moved to NoVA with cushy Federal (or Federal contractor) job offers in hand and chips on their shoulders and then started lashing out when they realized "Hey, everyone here is just like me, and now I'm not special like everyone in XYZ City told me I was!" This explains all of the "Don't you know who I am?" and "Bow down before me!" sorts of public tantrums I observed living in Fairfax County where I had to resist the urge to sucker-punch someone. NoVA is indeed a very dense concentration of the nation's intellectual "creme de la creme", but that dense nexus can backfire once they start feeling like "just another number" after growing up thinking "pie in the sky" for their futures. I personally could just no longer stand the elitism all around me and fled like a bat out of hell to an area where white-collars and blue-collars largely co-exist more harmoniously. Pittsburgh's white-collar sector has been exploding over the past decade, but I've still found (with rare exception) many of the brilliant "special" people here don't have the associated "kiss my feet" aura about them that I saw frequently in NoVA.
I view NoVA's issues as being largely transplant-driven. To reiterate I think some of these people who were raised to think they were "special" in smaller areas like Ottumwa, IA; Bay City, MI; or Pocatello, ID moved to NoVA with cushy Federal (or Federal contractor) job offers in hand and chips on their shoulders and then started lashing out when they realized "Hey, everyone here is just like me, and now I'm not special like everyone in XYZ City told me I was!" This explains all of the "Don't you know who I am?" and "Bow down before me!" sorts of public tantrums I observed living in Fairfax County where I had to resist the urge to sucker-punch someone. NoVA is indeed a very dense concentration of the nation's intellectual "creme de la creme", but that dense nexus can backfire once they start feeling like "just another number" after growing up thinking "pie in the sky" for their futures. I personally could just no longer stand the elitism all around me and fled like a bat out of hell to an area where white-collars and blue-collars largely co-exist more harmoniously. Pittsburgh's white-collar sector has been exploding over the past decade, but I've still found (with rare exception) many of the brilliant "special" people here don't have the associated "kiss my feet" aura about them that I saw frequently in NoVA.
Somewhere deep in the heart of a subdivision in Ashburn or Falls Church is someone originally from Ottumwa, IA, Bay City, MI or Pocatello, ID remorsefully asking himself or herself:
"What did I do? He can't have picked these places at random, could he? It must be the time I raised my voice at McDonalds and said 'But I asked for TWO barbecue sauces.' Maybe he didn't know I'd been up most of the night with a sick kid."
In my experience, white-collar types in this area have a considerable amount of respect for blue-collar types, who were taught or learned how to use their hands, and get paid by the task rather than by the almighty hour or contract. But, obviously your perceptions were what they were, so have a go at the area once again. It appears that we'll never get a full debriefing from Old Tired Man on the results of his "experiment" anyway - although most of us probably knew what the conclusions would be just by reading the OP.
In my experience, white-collar types in this area have a considerable amount of respect for blue-collar types, who were taught or learned how to use their hands, and get paid by the task rather than by the almighty hour or contract.
My experience in this area mirrors yours. In fact, many tradesmen in this area do very well financially (there are car mechanics who make over $100,000 a year) and more than a few enterprising tradesmen have started their own businesses and "made it big."
Since no one seems to have read the New Republic article I linked earlier (here again is the link: Washington D.C. Metro Area Not Richest In America, Actually | New Republic#), I'll simply summarize that it confirms something we've all known about this area -- the relatively egalitarian distribution of affluence here, hence our lack of huge rich-poor gap more common in areas like NorCal and NYC and their attendant social ills.
In my experience, in areas where the rich-poor gap is greater, there is much more elitist posturing and snootiness exhibited by the haves against the have-nots.
ILD, I am not following the argument of the author of the article you linked. Isn't "per capita" income simply an area's income divided by all residents, including children, most of whom do not earn incomes? If so, it shouldn't surprise anyone that Manhattan's stats are much higher, since few children live there, and that Arlington and Alexandria's stats are higher than Fairfax's and Loudoun's, for example. "Average", or mean, income is not the same as "per capita" income.
CAVA1990 believes the Mount Vernon area is "laid-back, down-to-earth." Our experience living there was quite the opposite, and CAVA1990 did not attack me in his response. If only the glowing spin is permitted on the NoVA forum, then potential newcomers get a less-than-balanced view. Do unflattering posts invalidate the quality of life in NoVA for others? No.
No one denies NoVA/DC has a lot of intelligent, knowledgeable people, but the area has many aggressive, self-serving personalities crammed into a small region. Social dynamics can get petty and destructive when many strong-willed people think they each know what's best for others.
My experience in this area mirrors yours. In fact, many tradesmen in this area do very well financially (there are car mechanics who make over $100,000 a year) and more than a few enterprising tradesmen have started their own businesses and "made it big."
Since no one seems to have read the New Republic article I linked earlier (here again is the link: Washington D.C. Metro Area Not Richest In America, Actually | New Republic#), I'll simply summarize that it confirms something we've all known about this area -- the relatively egalitarian distribution of affluence here, hence our lack of huge rich-poor gap more common in areas like NorCal and NYC and their attendant social ills.
In my experience, in areas where the rich-poor gap is greater, there is much more elitist posturing and snootiness exhibited by the haves against the have-nots.
I have been in this area for many years and have never observed this generalization of white collar bashing of blue collar people. Maybe I live in the wrong part of the area then, the far western suburbs that is.
It is easy to generalize and make it sound like an entire area is full of people thinking they are better than others, trying to get more material possessions than others, etc. etc. when those people are in the minority. Some people like to make a few experiences become a huge problem and then bash the area all over this subforum and others. Perhaps they just associated with the wrong people. I work (like probably 75% or more professionals) in an area that requires badges. I have never observed someone forgetting a badge who demanded of the security guard "do you know who I am", that is on the surface of it ridiculous. The procedure always is to give the guard your picture ID like a driver's license and he looks it up. It would be very against security rules for the guard to just go on a verbal command of a name (or based on his memory of a name) and issue an ID. In fact that facility would probably lose its clearance as a result, and DOD makes checks to see that doesn't happen. No employee with a badge would expect he could get a badge from a security guard who doesn't verify a photo id. Furthermore in a given facility the guard sees hundreds if not more people a day, no one would expect he would know their full name, or even their first name other than at one facility at least those of us who arrived early in the morning did know the guard on a first name basis and he knew ours as we arrived early before the big crowd rush. The whole thing is preposterous. As is people moving here from some other area thinking they were special there so they want to be special here. If so, given that almost no one here is really from around here, then that says that all the other areas are full of people with problems like that, which kind of invalidates the hypothesis, as they would have acted that way back from wherever they came from.
I work (like probably 75% or more professionals) in an area that requires badges. I have never observed someone forgetting a badge who demanded of the security guard "do you know who I am", that is on the surface of it ridiculous.
Yes. Which is why this incident stood out, because it was uncommon:
I remember that one well! Only some congressperson would be capable of acting like that, thinking they are better than anyone. I don't see it happening with normal white collar folks. Certainly not a common occurrence as was claimed here.
CAVA1990 believes the Mount Vernon area is "laid-back, down-to-earth." Our experience living there was quite the opposite...
Personally I don't find Mount Vernon area to be "laid-back" or "down-to-earth," but I have very limited experience with the area.
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...and CAVA1990 did not attack me in his response.
I don't think anyone has attacked you. "Attack" is a rather strong word. I'd say the most aggressive and personal of the remarks so far on this thread has been you calling me repellent.
Quote:
If only the glowing spin is permitted on the NoVA forum, then potential newcomers get a less-than-balanced view. Do unflattering posts invalidate the quality of life in NoVA for others? No.
I am all for balanced and reasoned critiques. Two of the critiques that come up rather frequently here deal with traffic and cost of housing, both very valid and verifiable. Those who can minimize the effects of these negatives tend to like the area while those with low tolerance for such negatives and/or those who suffer disproportionately from them tend to dislike this region. In my view, much also depends on one's religious affiliation or lack thereof. Those who find supportive religious communities tend to do well here. Others perhaps not as well.
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... but the area has many aggressive, self-serving personalities crammed into a small region. Social dynamics can get petty and destructive when many strong-willed people think they each know what's best for others.
I would put this in the category of "wild generalization" and not a particularly useful one at that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ngadude
I work (like probably 75% or more professionals) in an area that requires badges. I have never observed someone forgetting a badge who demanded of the security guard "do you know who I am", that is on the surface of it ridiculous.
I agree. Whenever I've seen folks who forget their IDs here (which is not that often), they have been invariably (and at times profusely) apologetic rather than imperious. Mainly when I do see folks being imperious, they are usually low level staffers for members on the Hill. In other words, they are immature kids playing adult.
Personally I don't find Mount Vernon area to be "laid-back" or "down-to-earth," but I have very limited experience with the area.
The further South you go, the more laid back it gets, particularly if you stay out of the newer McMansion neighborhoods.
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