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I was talking to a friend who happened to be Black about his plan to relocate. I mentioned that Clifton and Centerville were nice towns that were an easy drive to our offices in Fairfax. He dismissed them immediately as too White.
This made me think about the people I see near my home in the Western side of Fairfax County. My friend is right, there are very few black people in this side of the county. But in the 21 Century should this make any difference to him?
Without his actual presence in this thread its not possible to understand specifically what his motives are - a desire to have more african american culture around, a fear of discrimination, personal experience of discrimination, racism on his part, of whatever. I would suggest that we have too little information to go on to judge a person.
So lets not be quick to judge. I think a famous Jew once said something to that effect, eh?
One question to those of you on this tread who are black: how do you measure "friendliness to blacks" of a given area, say, eastern Fairfax vs. western Fairfax? Do you just use percentages of black population? Number of black churches, barbershops, etc.? Number of times stopped by local law enforcement on the road?
Or is it based more on feelings or "vibe"?
It's really hard to say. I can tell you that for me, it's a vibe. I've been to certain parts of western Fairfax that I just got funny looks, but I didn't necessarily attribute that to the area in general, but given the fact that there are so few blacks in that area, to me it seems as though there is something not quite adding up. Clifton is very expensive so it's somewhat understandable but Centreville is much more affordable and the population doesn't reflect that, as in it's more affordable for the average black person. To me that is a red flag. I look at it the other way too, I think a place that is 90-100% of any race is an issue. This is the same reasoning I used for why I wouldn't move to Bristow, Gainesville, Capitol Heights, Anacostia, etc. I think people who live in these areas are often times ignorant (not necessarily hateful) of people different than them. I don't want my children thinking that everybody that they will deal with in life are black or they will be white. They need to know different people from different backgrounds so they can understand and respect those who are different than them.
Why is it unavoidable? You just said that you were responding specifically to the scenario described in the OP. The OP was talking about one person. There's no reason why you couldn't state your opinion with regard to that one person and then keep it moving.
You clearly missed the part where that one person's feelings were rationalized based on "residual racism" of VA as opposed to MD and so on. *I* am not the one who started the "generalized" conversation here.
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I didn't discern this from the OP. There are reasons that African Americans may not want to live around a lot of white people other than them thinking that all white people are Klansmen.
That is NOT what I stated. However, is it somehow forbidden or irrelevant that the reason a certain population group may self-segreate might at least in part be based on that group's comparatively higher level of anti-other tendences rather than simply fear of racism from others?
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Drinking is just not a big deal in the black community.
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There could also be concerns about little things like finding a barbershop, finding a potential black spouse, etc. It's also nice to walk into a restaurant and hear some R&B from time to time. So it's not necessarily that the person described in the OP sees nothing but white devils out in Fairfax County. It may just not offer what he's looking for.
I've already acknowledged culture- and ethnic-specific amenities as a component in this discussion. However, I also pointed out that if there were the case with all ethnic groups, western Fairfax and eastern Loudoun would still be overwhelmingly white. It isn't today, is it?
I find this an exceptionally sad way to see the world. If we could only understand people with the same skin color as we do and no one else, we wouldn't be able to coexist in the same country.
You have missed everything that I have said. It's actually quite sad and this why I am not going to continue to entertain this. I think it's clear to everyone else except you that I have stated, repeatedly, that I do not mind (as a matter of fact I do right now at this moment) living in a community that isn't 50% or more black. I don't need to live in a predominantly black community. How many times do I have to say the same thing?
You have missed everything that I have said. It's actually quite sad and this why I am not going to continue to entertain this. I think it's clear to everyone else except you that I have stated, repeatedly, that I do not mind (as a matter of fact I do right now at this moment) living in a community that isn't 50% or more black. I don't need to live in a predominantly black community. How many times do I have to say the same thing?
That remark of mine was in response to this:
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because no matter how many people you talk to, no matter how many studies you find, you will never wear the shoes of a black person in this region. Just because you can't understand it doesn't make it wrong.
I'd like to think that we're all human and therefore capable of empathy. Having been the only X in the room here and elsewhere in the world more times than I care to remember, I do not think I have to be a black person to understand about fear of racism, alienation, oppression, etc. or seeking comforts of the familiar. I also think that those feelings shouldn't guide automatically a person to assume the worst of one's neighbors and fellow citizens until proven otherwise. I think it's exceptionally difficult to form a functional society if everyone thought that instead of giving the benefit of doubt to others unless they prove unworthy of that trust based on their demonstrated actions.
And, yes, I agree with your sentiment that exposing children to a variety of different people is positive and I got it loud and clear that you don't necessarily need to live in a majority black area.
I didn't discern this from the OP. There are reasons that African Americans may not want to live around a lot of white people other than them thinking that all white people are Klansmen. A lot of it is just comfort level. For example, I was never big into drinking in college (still not), but a lot of my classmates were. My co-workers are definitely big drinkers. Drinking is just not a big deal in the black community. But if you're at a professional event and you're not drinking, more than a few people will look at you like there's something off about you. They may not think negatively of you, but just find it peculiar that you don't like alcohol. That's one example of a certain type of social pressure that can make blacks feel awkward in some situations.
There could also be concerns about little things like finding a barbershop, finding a potential black spouse, etc. It's also nice to walk into a restaurant and hear some R&B from time to time. So it's not necessarily that the person described in the OP sees nothing but white devils out in Fairfax County. It may just not offer what he's looking for.
THIS!!!!! It's not about the number of or racial feelings of white people in an area. We understand that some people are racist and some aren't, that's a given and a constant. Being afraid of racism, at least for me, isn't something I waste my time doing. You encounter it, you deal with it, you move on.
The issue is just about feeling comfortable and generally speaking, if you have something of a critical mass of other black people (defined however that person wants to define it), it's just more comfortable to live day-to-day. It's just kind of a vibe. It's a feeling of not being different. And if you are in a truly diverse area, then its a huge bonus that not only do you get to be around other blacks, but you get to be around other types of people, period.
Do you get what I'm saying now? I guarantee you, no matter how non-racist a white person might be, 99/100 wouldn't be comfortable in Anacostia, for whatever reason. Is it because there's too many blacks? Maybe, maybe not? Is it because it's not enough whites? Maybe, maybe not.
But if the latter statement is true, could you truly say that's racism? Not in my opinion. It's just about being comfortable.
I wouldnt use my experiences of being the only Jew in a room, or the only northerner in a room, or even the only American in a room, to assume I understand the experiences of the only black or gay - or even the only Orthodox Jew - in a room. Not all experiences of alienation are alike. Any of us who has been part of more than one minority knows that - due to different histories, power relations, cultural differences.
Critical mass matters more for some groups and in some circumstances than others.
I guarantee you, no matter how non-racist a white person might be, 99/100 wouldn't be comfortable in Anacostia, for whatever reason. Is it because there's too many blacks? Maybe, maybe not? Is it because it's not enough whites? Maybe, maybe not.
I can't speak for "white people," because I am not "white" (but I've known a few people who say they are ) but I am personally very comfortable in areas with lots of black people that also happens to be safe (low crime) and have a well-educated population. While I am personally not all that bothered by my varying environments (I've been to highly dangerous war zones), I am not as comfortable bringing my wife and kids to an area with high crime rate, widespread drug use and low degree of education whatever the ethnic composition of the area. Meth or crack, makes no difference to me -- both bad.
In the above scenario, it could indeed be that some whites may avoid Anacostia because of large number of blacks or because of the paucity of whites. It's also possible that they might avoid the area because of its relatively higher crime rate. You can't simply assume it's all or partly based on race, because there is a big difference between irrational discrimination ("Eeek, dark people!") and rational discrimination ("Eeek, homicides and assaults!").
Whether it is a preconceived assumption or - as pgtvatitans shared - a more obvious experience, it could be that a black person's arrival in some Western Fairfax neighborhoods is perceived as a less positive development that if it were perhaps an Asian or Middle Eastern person. It's possible that a Hispanic person's presence in western Fairfax could be perceived similar to that as a black person although I imagine it would be different in Texas or Florida, for example. In all cases, higher economic status could alleviate perceptions to some or full extent.
I can't speak for "white people," because I am not "white" (but I've known a few people who say they are ) but I am personally very comfortable in areas with lots of black people that also happens to be safe (low crime) and have a well-educated population. While I am personally not all that bothered by my varying environments (I've been to highly dangerous war zones), I am not as comfortable bringing my wife and kids to an area with high crime rate, widespread drug use and low degree of education whatever the ethnic composition of the area. Meth or crack, makes no difference to me -- both bad.
In the above scenario, it could indeed be that some whites may avoid Anacostia because of large number of blacks or because of the paucity of whites. It's also possible that they might avoid the area because of its relatively higher crime rate. You can't simply assume it's all or partly based on race, because there is a big difference between irrational discrimination ("Eeek, dark people!") and rational discrimination ("Eeek, homicides and assaults!").
there are parts of PG county where you can buy a 'mcmansion' in a gated community for a LOT less than in parts of NoVa with comparable commutes to major employment centers in DC. Now a case can be made against PG public schools, to be sure, but seeing as there's no shortage of people who choose homes like that who either homeschool, send their kids to private schools, or have no kids at home, and yet those neighborhoods in those parts of PG are almost 100% black, Ive got to think that there are a lot of non-blacks who are just uncomfortable in a 100% black area.
As for Anacostia, theres actually a growing group of black yuppies there (and a smaller group of whites who've moved in). I think a lot of whites would still be uncomfortable moving there though.
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) but I am personally very comfortable in areas with lots of black people that also happens to be safe (low crime) and have a well-educated population. While I am personally not all that bothered by my varying environments (I've been to highly dangerous war zones), I am not as comfortable bringing my wife and kids to an area with high crime rate, widespread drug use and low degree of education whatever the ethnic composition of the area. Meth or crack, makes no difference to me -- both bad.
