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I ask because a friend of mine is building there, and was due to close last week. Her punch list ran 6 pages, and the sales manager expressed his opinion that this was excessive, and "that he would send a contract withdrawal" per her request. She did not make this request, but figures that he could sell it today for probably 40K more than the current contract to someone who might not care about the condition.
I saw the pictures. It looks like QA didn't even do a walkthrough. Short trim was filled out with caulk, holes for cabinet handles mis-drilled, filled and stained poorly, missing paint, paint on the carpeting next to the outline of a paint can (no paper to protect), crooked/warped doors, dented fireplace frame, some things redone to meet code (bannister heights, carbon monoxide detectors). And it runs the gamut across contractors, so the entire quality process is lacking in so many ways.
Their position is .. we're closing in "X days" and you better be there. I'm stymied.
K Hovnanian in NOVA used to be Washington Homes. Washington homes had very spotty reputation.
Do not go to the settlement until they do all the reasonable fixes. I say reasonable because i don't know the condition of the house and what's on the punch list. They cannot force your friend to close, nor can they sell your friend's house to someone else unless your friend agrees. It will be considered breach of contract.
Yep, she knows that. It's just the insulting nature of the Sales Manager. And they got clear to close and she had to tell KHov's lender that closing was delayed.
It was truly an extensive list. Three colors of grout in the bathrooms. They installed a small platform in the media room by mistake, then lowered the electrical plugs .. who knows if those are now to code? The fireplace stone has to be removed so that they can remove the fireplace insert and replace it. And we're not talking about a small dent ... it was the size of a pen cap. Every one of the basement cabinet doors has to be replaced because of scratches, dents, etc.
She will be happy with reasonable fixes, she could do without the drama.
Thanks for the insight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by newnewsmama
K Hovnanian in NOVA used to be Washington Homes. Washington homes had very spotty reputation.
Do not go to the settlement until they do all the reasonable fixes. I say reasonable because i don't know the condition of the house and what's on the punch list. They cannot force your friend to close, nor can they sell your friend's house to someone else unless your friend agrees. It will be considered breach of contract.
What happened to us (not in the same development but different) is that they had 49 items on the punch list, the completed all but 8. We refused to sign off that it was completed. They threatened to cancel closing but it was never official, just a threat. We went and closed and during closing got a call where they created a new punch list with wording that it would be completed after closing. We signed the original one and the new one. Now we are in the process of getting the new one sorted out. Basically tell them that the items you ordered were new from the factories that made them, if they have scratches, marks, dents, paint stains etc, then they are no longer new and you didn't pay for used items. They tried that crap with us and carpet and cabinet doors and flooring. We have it in writing that if I can show them thinset still on the carpet they will replace it. They ordered 7 new cabinet doors, 20 new spindles for the bannister, a new stone for fireplace, and replacement planks for the wood flooring.
You are wrong, they can force you to close, if you don't close you are in breach of contract and they take your money. The contract says they will build you a quality home, what is the definition of quality? That would be up to arbitration (which is in the contract as well, no jury here). The person does not own the house, the builder does. Yes there is a contract, but if she is in default by not closing when they tell her the closing date is they can take her deposits and nullify the contract. It sucks but it is what it is.
Think of it this way. Get the items on a new punch list. Label it a post closing punch list. Put at the bottom that they agree to fix the items after closing. Have everyone sign it. Now close. Now you are in control. You can be there to watch that they do the work correctly and don't damage something else. They have to make the appointments with you now, not just show up and do things out of order.
Tell her to run. We rented a home that was built by them in Purcellville (Hirst Farms). Worst built home ever. My husband's boss owned a home in the same neighborhood. He got his at a discount due to foundation issues. Other neighbors could tell you other problems. I would walk honestly and save the future headaches.
Excellent feedback, Malletto, good luck, and I'd like to see if all your issues are resolved.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malletto
What happened to us (not in the same development but different) is that they had 49 items on the punch list, the completed all but 8. We refused to sign off that it was completed. They threatened to cancel closing but it was never official, just a threat. We went and closed and during closing got a call where they created a new punch list with wording that it would be completed after closing. We signed the original one and the new one. Now we are in the process of getting the new one sorted out. Basically tell them that the items you ordered were new from the factories that made them, if they have scratches, marks, dents, paint stains etc, then they are no longer new and you didn't pay for used items. They tried that crap with us and carpet and cabinet doors and flooring. We have it in writing that if I can show them thinset still on the carpet they will replace it. They ordered 7 new cabinet doors, 20 new spindles for the bannister, a new stone for fireplace, and replacement planks for the wood flooring.
You are wrong, they can force you to close, if you don't close you are in breach of contract and they take your money. The contract says they will build you a quality home, what is the definition of quality? That would be up to arbitration (which is in the contract as well, no jury here). The person does not own the house, the builder does. Yes there is a contract, but if she is in default by not closing when they tell her the closing date is they can take her deposits and nullify the contract. It sucks but it is what it is.
Think of it this way. Get the items on a new punch list. Label it a post closing punch list. Put at the bottom that they agree to fix the items after closing. Have everyone sign it. Now close. Now you are in control. You can be there to watch that they do the work correctly and don't damage something else. They have to make the appointments with you now, not just show up and do things out of order.
Thanks Riley! This is their dream home (they really like the layout), so she's going to stand tough. I really try to act in transparency about my dealings with clients and the other side of the transaction, this really is strange. I'd like to see them get their "just desserts", but it doesn't always work that way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riley09swb
Tell her to run. We rented a home that was built by them in Purcellville (Hirst Farms). Worst built home ever. My husband's boss owned a home in the same neighborhood. He got his at a discount due to foundation issues. Other neighbors could tell you other problems. I would walk honestly and save the future headaches.
Something your friends have to understand is that "K. Hovnanian" is basically nothing but the name on the flag out front of the model unit. Those who are building the houses are the same cheap labor that all of the others are hiring to build their inventory as well. I speak as a home owner of a newly built home from another national brand. After speaking with those on the job who've I've come to know over the past 18 months during construction of the neighborhood, I quickly learned that there is a small pool of labor that rotates around the area to swing the hammers. I also quickly learned that there isn't some mystical factory for materials owned and dedicated just to that specific home builder, but rather a factory or two who supply the same materials to all of them, from K. Hovnanian to Toll Brothers to Van Metre to DR Horton to Ryland to Brookfield to..... I've seen countless flatbed 18 wheelers driving around making deliveries of raw materials with tags on each stack identifying which development to off load them to. These homes aren't really "construction" as much as they are "kit building". A few models selected that fit the profit profile, specs are created for each type, ordered, delivered, nailed together.
That being said, the one area that really is lacking in that area of the labor pool is with the finishing carpenters. Builders fly through the bulk aspect of putting up frames and running wires/cables/plumbing. It's fast, it's easy, it's a low skill set. Where they spend the money is in the finishings, so they go for the cheapest "no questions asked" labor pool they can get. What you end up with is exhaust fans falling out of the ceiling because a clip wasn't installed. Drywall seams that buldge. Warped kitchen cabnet doors that weren't installed correctly, etc... I've actually heard of builders taking a truck over to a competitors neighborhood, yelling a number in spanish to the works, and those workers dropping their tools and getting into the truck to go work elsewhere for a few extra dollars.
This is my first "new" home. Only way I'd buy another is if it were a custom job that I could watch on a daily basis. Please tell your friend that they should expect several warranty claims over the next 12 months, and MAKE SURE the warranty claim process is in writing. Get everything, and I mean everything, in writing. Also, tell them to expect to probably spend another $20k at least over the next two years making their house into a home. Materials will be upgraded, landscaping, etc. If they're going into this with the same mindset as they would with buying a new car, they will be disappointed badly. There will be problems. There will be settlment cracks in the drywall as the house goes through it's first 12 months of 4 seasons and the wood settles while finding it's natural ph balance. It happens.
At the end of the day, while this sounds harsh, it's not just my words here but a few attorney's I know as well who practice in that field - the vast majority of home builders are scumbags, liars, cheats, and con artists. They'll tell you whatever it takes to get you to either sign the release, buy the house, or go away. You have to push push push push them. The sales team is even worse. Right up there with what you think of a used car salesman. And in that market, becuase it is so hot, these sales folks don't have to work, negotiate, or put up with anything they don't want to. So long as they're moving the inventory, that name on the flag out front won't care one bit what you think of them. Sure, they all speak about "customer satisfaction" and creating a lasting relationship as being their top priority, but it's all BS to get you to buy their house instead of the one across the street. Builders out there, with that hot market, are basically delivering a livable framed house. They advertise a "home" with the model, but what you get is a white box that was put together as fast as possible. You take it from there...
Enjoyed reading your post and your reflection on the build process as I am cross on whether to build new or buy resale.
Are you saying that even though you got to pick your lot and pick the floor plan with any personal tweaks you would instead, given the chance to redo (since it seems you dont have the time for custom build), buy a resale of a few years old that perhaps has had it quirks worked out and upgrades begun?
I'd be interested in hearing any updates on your client's experience through the rest of the closing process with khov. We too are building (delivery soon) with them at Willowsford.
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