Starting a new family: Stay in DC or move to Ashburn?

[Caladium]

Originally Posted by JEB77

What does your fiance think? I'd be asking her first, not us.

This is the best advice of all.

[Middlin]

What other options are there to help improve the public schools in not only DC but also every other city in America? This trend of parents fleeing cities when their kids turn 5 due to fears of subpar public schools is being played out in cities large and small throughout our nation. Are suburban schools really better at educating a child, or do people misinterpret higher standardized testing rankings in the suburbs as being inherent to educational quality rather than a natural phenomenon that occurs when you have a dense concentration of students from wealthy academically-oriented parents? Do people really think the teachers are "better" in Fairfax County than The District? If Bill Clinton High School in Ashburn (just as an example) is a public school comprised largely of white or Asian-American students from six-figure households while having average teachers, and if Anacostia High School (if it even exists) is a public school comprised largely of African-American students from households that are struggling socioeconomically while having above-average teachers, then Thomas Jefferson is still likely to outperform Anacostia on standardized tests, which will make it appear "better" to most superficial parents. Why do people fail to understand that socioeconomics play a MUCH more dominant role in a child's education than what school they happen to be enrolled within? Pittsburgh's "best" city public high school, Taylor Allderdice High School, happens to primarily serve affluent neighborhoods popular with children of the "eds and meds" folks. Who stands a better chance in the long-run---the child of a college professor and hospital department head or the child of a broke single mother? There are SUBURBAN school districts here near Pittsburgh that perform more poorly than some city schools. You know why? Socioeconomics.

As someone that attended schools with socioeconomic issues, I can tell you even for the most committed parents this can be a tough road. The school where I attended had so much disruptive behavior, security, drugs, locker searches......You can't generalize that all schools that perform badly are because the parents work and can't help their kids with homework or stress the importance of education. Your over simplify and generalize as usual.

[reebo]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

What other options are there to help improve the public schools in not only DC but also every other city in America? This trend of parents fleeing cities when their kids turn 5 due to fears of subpar public schools is being played out in cities large and small throughout our nation. Are suburban schools really better at educating a child, or do people misinterpret higher standardized testing rankings in the suburbs as being inherent to educational quality rather than a natural phenomenon that occurs when you have a dense concentration of students from wealthy academically-oriented parents? Do people really think the teachers are "better" in Fairfax County than The District? If Bill Clinton High School in Ashburn (just as an example) is a public school comprised largely of white or Asian-American students from six-figure households while having average teachers, and if Anacostia High School (if it even exists) is a public school comprised largely of African-American students from households that are struggling socioeconomically while having above-average teachers, then Thomas Jefferson is still likely to outperform Anacostia on standardized tests, which will make it appear "better" to most superficial parents. Why do people fail to understand that socioeconomics play a MUCH more dominant role in a child's education than what school they happen to be enrolled within? Pittsburgh's "best" city public high school, Taylor Allderdice High School, happens to primarily serve affluent neighborhoods popular with children of the "eds and meds" folks. Who stands a better chance in the long-run---the child of a college professor and hospital department head or the child of a broke single mother? There are SUBURBAN school districts here near Pittsburgh that perform more poorly than some city schools. You know why? Socioeconomics.

This is easy to say when it's not your child.

FCNova, I can't rep you again.....

[stpickrell]

Originally Posted by Middlin

As someone that attended schools with socioeconomic issues, I can tell you even for the most committed parents this can be a tough road. The school where I attended had so much disruptive behavior, security, drugs, locker searches......You can't generalize that all schools that perform badly are because the parents work and can't help their kids with homework or stress the importance of education. Your over simplify and generalize as usual.

Yep. Some schools have so much poverty/dysfunction at the parent/student level that you can't be a one-man socio-economic engineering experiment.

Or, why is it incumbent on city residents to pioneer schools with 90%+ FARMS

[Yankeesfan]

Originally Posted by JEB77

What does your fiance think? I'd be asking her first, not us.

My thought, as well!

I've loved raising my family in Fairfax County but would have enjoyed living in the city before having children if it had been affordable at the time, which it wasn't. Don't rush, and certainly make it a joint decision with your fiancee!

[FindingZen]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

As others said a city guy relocating from The District to Ashburn will indeed result in a massive culture shock. I'm also an urban-dweller, and I found myself withering away in the suburban doldrums while living in Reston, which is considered an "urban" suburb, even though most residents there drive everywhere on busy roadways. I would have done anything to live in The District, but my salary didn't make that feasible, even with a roommate. I eventually moved to a different metro area entirely where I could earn a comparable salary yet live a very comfortable urban experience. Now I can walk out my front door and walk to stadiums, ethnic restaurants, a casino, parks, theaters, nightclubs, markets, etc. for just $700/month in rent.

In my personal experience the rents in Fairfax County didn't drop enough to offset the loss of urbanity and corresponding diminishing quality-of-life that the extra congestion that living in the suburbs entailed. I was paying $1,325/month for a spacious yet dated and aging 1-BR apartment in Reston. I could have rented a comparable 1-BR unit for not much more than that well inside the Beltway, where I could have walked more places instead of sitting in mind-numbing traffic to access any worthwhile point of interest that wasn't a big-box store or chain restaurant. For me I suppose I was angry feeling as if I wasn't receiving a decent "bang-for-your-buck" factor while living as far away from urbanity as I was, where prices should have progressively become less expensive.

I'm a product of suburbia. I hated growing up in suburbia. I would have much preferred to have lived right in the heart of a city where I could have walked to a library, coffeeshop, ice cream parlor, park, etc. after school instead of waiting my parents to get home from working long hours to see if they could drive me to places. Our small subdivision bled into a very busy sidewalkless four-lane roadway, which didn't leave much of an opportunity to ride a bike or go walking/running, much less walking to other friends' homes in other parts of the 'burb.

"City types" and "suburban types" are very different people. You'll find most on this sub-forum are quite content paying an arm-and-a-leg to pay to live in suburbs in NoVA that resemble every other much cheaper sprawling suburb in America because they see some sort of "uniqueness" in a place like Ashburn or Sterling. I personally don't. Reston, with its extensive tree canopy, meandering hiking trails, and underground utilities, is indeed unique, but I could rattle off Pittsburgh suburbs that compare almost tit-for-tat with most other communities in NoVA (despite being a fraction of the price). DC city proper offers a unique living experience much different than Pittsburgh's city proper living experience or any other major U.S. city's living experience for that matter. I'd expect to pay a pricing premium for that---not for the "luxury" of living in a vinyl-clad McMansion in a master-planned community in Loudoun County that looks like Anywhere, USA.

Oh, sure, the people on here will justify paying $500,000+ for a tract home by saying "the schools are excellent". Guess what? The schools were excellent where I grew up, with my parents paying $115,000 for a very nice home. The schools are excellent in the suburbs of Pittsburgh, too, where you can find comparable homes for 1/3 the price you'd pay in Fairfax or Loudoun Counties. If the suburbs aren't inherently unique in NoVA, and if the public schools aren't unique, either, then I personally don't know what justifies the high cost of housing there, to be quite frank. The people on here will say "supply and demand" while totally disregarding the fact that rampant NIMBYism in NoVA's suburbs leads to a massive outcry against any developer's proposal to increase density, which, would, in fact, bring the supply vs. demand issue nearer to parity while correspondingly making transit-oriented development (TOD) easier to facilitate congestion REDUCTION. There's a reason why the surface streets of Arlington are much more manageable at rush-hour than the surface streets of much smaller Reston or Ashburn. If you could pay $500,000 for a 2-BR historic rowhome in NW DC with a tiny yard or $500,000 for a 2-BR newer towhouse in the far 'burbs with a tiny yard, then I personally just don't see why anyone would choose the latter over the former.

As mentioned in other threads, Northern Virginia is unique in that there are two major centers towards the outer suburbs: Tysons Corner as well the Dulles Tech Corridor which includes Reston. This situation helps to keep housing costs higher than one would expect relatively far from the urban core and certainly explains the irony of why a townhouse in Ashburn might cost about the same as a similarly-appointed townhouse in a DC neighborhood (more likely in NE or SE than NW.)

Regarding public schools, the OP and their spouse would likely have to be rather diligent to be able to place their future kid(s) in a competitive DC public school. While Loudoun County's school boundaries seem to be rather dynamic at the moment due to growth, odds are high that the "worst" school in LCPS will better prepare students than the "average" DCPS school.

RE: TOD, it's unfortunate that you will not be around for the arrival of the Silver Line to its initial Reston terminus scheduled for later this year.

[DillThePill]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

Do people really think the teachers are "better" in Fairfax County than The District?

As a broad statement, yes. Teachers want an environment that is safe and where they can be effective. City schools in rough areas can be frustrating and scary. A student threatened to have her gang member cousin kill my wife when she taught in Baltimore city. She was routinely cussed out and had students get physical with her. Some of the kids are struggling with basic survival because they don't get fed at home or don't have electricity. These things don't happen in wealthy suburbs.

Ask teachers in the job market where it's easier to get a job - Fairfax or DC? Fairfax is more competitive and can be more selective even though city schools often pay more. City schools have to recruit the least experienced teachers who are more desperate and lured by the high pay. Then the good ones don't stick around or they internally transfer to a wealthy or specialty school in the city.

I don't mean to disparage good teachers in the city. They certainly exist but, overall, the better teachers go to where the job is more pleasant.