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Old 07-19-2013, 11:43 AM
 
Location: New-Dentist Colony
5,759 posts, read 10,685,155 times
Reputation: 3952

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Quote:
Originally Posted by FCNova View Post
I agree with most of your post, but I find the engine revving incident appalling. I don't know if it's less confrontational than other approaches but it definitely sounds more dangerous to do that with a little kid directly behind you. I'd rather someone just yell at my kid.
If he truly gunned it super-high, that's over the top. But a little bit of a rev might be just enough to alert the kid that the vehicle is occupied and about to back up.

I myself would probably have gone with the horn blip, followed by the horn lean, followed by getting out and shouting "HELLO??!!!" and then glaring at the parents. If they're actually around.
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Old 07-19-2013, 11:50 AM
 
150 posts, read 296,872 times
Reputation: 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlingtonian View Post
The facts as presented make the neighbor guy out to be a real jerk. But what's the complete picture?

How fast was the guy really driving? (On a small street, 20 mph can sound like speeding to a pedestrian.)

Did the mom who confronted him actually do so politely and calmly, or--more likely, since she thought her kid had been threatened--did she start yelling at him, perhaps cursing at him? Was she in the street still or on his property? If someone comes onto your property and starts cursing you at the top of their lungs, do you owe that person a polite response?

She started out calm, and it escalated as he began throwing the f-word around. I'm not defending her way of handling it. Like I said, it wouldn't have been my approach, but it isn't justification for his reactions. If someone approached me like that, I actually would stay calm. I don't yell at strangers.

When he "revved the engine like mad," was this in his own driveway? And had these girls just ridden their bikes to where he was, positioning themselves (bafflingly) right behind his vehicle? I could see how he would find that irritating and demonstrating a lack of parenting or common sense.

The girls didn't "position themselves behind his truck". They were riding around the circle, and when they were behind his truck, he revved the engine. The parents ran to them, as I assume any parent would, to make sure they were safe and removed.

We have a similar situation on our street; some neighbors have a basketball goal at the curb, and their kids play in it all the time. They even have the nerve to put pylons around the goal. Our street adjoins a very busy street, so folks are often turning at relatively high speed--especially on the way home from work--to find themselves faced suddenly with the pylons and kids. I actually don't begrudge them playing in the street--we did so when I was a kid--but the pylons are obnoxious. When a car comes, move out of the way! Drivers shouldn't have to navigate around your pylons, which are not legal anyway.

I keep telling my wife "One of these days, I'm gonna run right over their goddamn pylons"--but then she cajoles me and begs me not to start a war with the neighbors, and so I never do.

I think some parents have a sense of entitlement and are bad at teaching their kids to respect the rights of others.

And why are these cul-de-sac kids not using their backyards at all? I think SOME bike-riding there is OK, but they shouldn't be taking over the thing. Have them stick the curb. And try to keep them from riding right when people get home from work. If they're too young to go riding on other neighborhood streets, they're probably safer in the backyard anyway.

Who said anything about the kids not using their backyards at all? But the kids can't ride bikes in their backyards. If kids can't ride their bikes on quiet culdesac sidewalks, then where the heck can they? I do keep my kids on our driveway (and inside, eating dinner) during the return-from-work hours. My primary reasoning is actually to be sure we don't irritate the neighbors. See? No entitlement here. But this guy is retired and home all day, so I don't feel safe letting my kids play outside ever, at any time of day, anymore.

.
It is unbelievable to me how many people are defending this jerk's behavior!

It doesn't matter what anybody said or did to this guy, his reactions are childish and dangerous and unacceptable. Look, my primary reason for starting this thread was so I could get some advice for diffusing the situation and making it liveable for all of us. I don't need outside analysis of the situation to decide who is "right" and who is "wrong". That kind of attitude is what caused this problem in the first place. I want to let it die and make friends with this seemingly crazy man. I need advice regarding how best to do that, to rise above the right-versus-wrong approach and FIX THIS.
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Old 07-19-2013, 12:02 PM
 
150 posts, read 296,872 times
Reputation: 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skatergirl View Post
I am dumbstruck that you are trying to appease both sides because you don't want to hurt anyone's feelings/offend anyone/be nice to everyone, even though according to YOU, this guy is unbalanced. If you truly believe that a dinner invitation is your next step, then you are offbalanced. If you're not willing to take a stand and ultimately choose a right and wrong, then it would appear that your preference is to just gossip about this matter and "do" nothing.

If you haven't already offered the dinner invitation, then my suggestion would be not to and to proceed according to something I read a long time ago regarding neighbor situations: "polite but detached"
I don't think trying to get along with everybody makes me "off balanced". I don't need to choose a right and wrong. Even the neighbor who initially confronted this guy wants it all to just die. She hasn't retaliated by filing a civil complaint against him, though she is obviously justified. We all just want this to pass so we can move forward as neighbors who get along. We don't have to be best friends, but I will not feel safe around this person until we have a relatively smooth relationship with him. He is sitting over in his house all day, scheming about ways to keep stirring the pot. I just think that if he felt more of a connection to some of us, maybe he would behave differently.

Polite but detached is exactly how it was before, and I was fine with that. It is an acceptable way to coexist, but now it has progressed to a point where I don't feel safe that way.
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Old 07-19-2013, 12:22 PM
 
Location: New-Dentist Colony
5,759 posts, read 10,685,155 times
Reputation: 3952
SLCLady: I'm not defending him. I'm merely pointing out that you are on one side of the dispute, and there are always two sides. You, as a mom on the street who is friends with the other moms, are hardly an objective party. Nor is he. He might well be a complete jerk, IF he is being reckless or intentionally threatening kids.

If your friend did nothing wrong, the court will throw out the civil complaint. He can't say she was trespassing if he had not previously told her to stay off his property (assuming that's the basis of his complaint). If she is repeatedly badgering him, however, that's harassment.

It's clearly too late for all parties to make nicey-nice and be friends. I would guess he feels like the street has been taken over for private use and is irritated by that. Perhaps a mediator can get to the root of what both parties want and see if there is some acceptable middle ground.
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Old 07-19-2013, 12:39 PM
 
421 posts, read 831,359 times
Reputation: 66
I had a neighbor almost exactly like this in Pennsylvania years ago. He threatened another grown man who was also a neighbor for complaining to the defendants wife about dog waste from his dog on my other neighbors property. We found out later (from the wife) that we were dealing with an alcoholic, not one defended by any of his family members either. I believe the couple filed for divorce less than a month after the original spat. As a concerned citizen, I stopped at the local wine/spirits store (also state owned as in VA, but almost all wines have to be sold at these establishments in PA) and was able to put this man on a no-buy list. He had been known to store personnel for also harassing them several times, and not just at one location. So he was banned from all the state store premises for life.
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Old 07-19-2013, 01:08 PM
 
150 posts, read 296,872 times
Reputation: 105
Interesting, because we were thinking this guy might have been drunk during the first altercation, just because of certain other cues. This is something that has me doubly concerned. A sober guy revving his engine as a threat could easily turn into a drunk guy actually backing over my kid.

Anyway, my mom gave me some good advice. I think we are going to go to the court thing to support our neighbor, particularly because my husband is the person who called the cops the second time. But then hopefully things can simmer, and maybe in a month or so we can all start making gestures to repair the damage and try to leave this behind us. In the mean time we will be extra careful not to anger the beast any further. I wanted to resolve it as soon as possible, but maybe it will take a little more time than I originally hoped.
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Old 07-19-2013, 01:28 PM
 
232 posts, read 359,694 times
Reputation: 132
I absolutely understand your frustration with your neighbor's actions but do agree with those that said there are two sides of everything. NOT to make your side incorrect but to ask you to look at it from a different angle to see if in his mind he could believe that he is in the right. That is not to say either side is right or wrong - just that in order to solve something you have to be open to looking at it from a different point of view.

My previous home was a townhome and my building was located at the end of the street - similar to a cul de sac. In the warmer months, there were always kids playing in the street/riding bikes/throwing balls, etc.. Numerous times someone would complain about the "speeding" driver - but in reality the driver was not driving at excessive speeds it was more that the speed seemed greater when viewed with the danger of the kids in the street.

Whether it is a cul de sac or a regular street - it is still a road governed by standard rules of the road. Those rules do not have a separate standard for when kids are playing there, because it is assumed that kids are not playing there.

Your neighbor definitely seems like he is reacting to something that is very significant to him. And for the picture he took, if I was to guess, it would be to defend himself that "everyone" is friends and ganging up on him.....I don't know your neighbor just drawing a conclusion based on normal human behavior.

Revving the engine was childish and petty - again, his reactions seem to suggest that he is offended about something. Perhaps it is as simple as everyone else is friendly and he has been left out? Have no idea but I would guess understanding his motivation would be the key to resolving this. Especially since he owns the property and there is no real way for you to force him out of his home.

Good luck.
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Old 07-19-2013, 01:37 PM
 
Location: Metro Washington DC
15,402 posts, read 25,684,269 times
Reputation: 10404
When I was a kid, kids above a certain age played in the street. It was a through street and not a cul-de-sac. We knew how to get out of the way of cars passing through. When did this change?
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Old 07-19-2013, 01:55 PM
 
12,905 posts, read 15,593,506 times
Reputation: 9392
SLClady: I'm sorry you feel that some are taking this guy's side. I think, if you read through, you'll see that 99% of us feel that he is way out of line an, in nice terms, is being a first-rate jerk. But we are actually fairly "objective" people in this instance and we are seeing his side of the story or what could be going on that is irritating him. No matter what, his response is wrong and over the top.

I think we are just pointing out to you that this guy:

1. May well not care for children
2. Definitely doesn't care for children playing in the cul-de-sac that his home is part of
3. Doesn't like toys laying in the cul-de-sac anywhere in his driveable vicinity.

He has valid feelings for 1, 2, and 3. Most people who are "kid" people just avoid them. I think he's got more than he bargained for in when he moved into his new home. I'm sure he's just infuriated. I have a daycare operating right next door to me and I'm not please about it....at all. I'm sure he feels that his home should be his escape from whatever he deals with and he feels like he's not getting that.

Anyway, in reading the other responses, my opinion is that I doubt highly that he feels left out. I think he just doesn't like kids and doesn't want them in the street. I would not invite him to dinner; however I would invite him to a block party. Something tells me, though, that a cul-de-sac party probably won't be his cup of tea!!

The most I might do, at this point, is to send him a card with a little note in it that states that you're sorry that everyone got off on the wrong foot and that you realize that the kids activities in the cul-de-sac probably bother him and that, as a responsible parent, you will do your best to make sure that your kids are operating safely, will stick to the sidewalks, and will be supervised at all times so as to avoid any unnecessary disruptions to him. Just basically let him know that you are aware of his requirements for privacy while also being firm that your children will be playing outside using the sidewalks.

As far as making everyone happy--this just never works. Make a neutral "detached" olive branch to the guy and stay out of your friend's court issue with him. She chose to walk up there and confront him. You can support her in the background but do NOT go to court with her.
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Old 07-19-2013, 02:02 PM
 
Location: D.C.
2,867 posts, read 3,520,141 times
Reputation: 4770
OP: My advice would be to just leave that guy alone, don't try to reach out to him and befriend him. Not that I'm that mean of a person, but because I have a feeling there's an underlying problem in that home that you probably don't want to welcome into your own home. If he acts up again, call the cops again. Eventually they'll become so miserable with all of the negative attention they've brought onto themselves with this behaviour that they'll want to leave. Make sure the kids know to avoid this guy's house. If you suspect he's driving around drunk, tell the cops that you're concerned about this, get his tag number one day and give it to them. Ask them if they can keep an eye out for him in the community. If you know his travel patterns throughout the week, and know that he comes racing into the neighborhood at breakneck speeds, as the police if they'd put a car at the entrance to the neighborhood, or on your street a couple of times around those times. Imagine the fear on his face if he comes zipping into the neighborhood only to see a police car sitting in it. Put him on their radar, not you on his radar. You're a nice mom in a nice neighborhood. He's an idiot who's relocated to the wrong place for that kind of behaviour. Engaging him means you'll bring him closer to you. If he's a nut case, you and your family don't want to be close to him. If he acts like that towards children, imagine how he acts towards his employer? Imagine how he acts towards his wife? Imagine how he'd act towards you if he got to know you well enough that he felt there was no barrier on his behaviour between you and he?

Steer clear of him. Let the cops know about him. He steps out of line, call the cops. Eventually they'll engage him enough times that he'll either feel the need to sell and leave, or clean up his act and fly right. Enjoy your other neighbors and have fun. Eventually he'll realize that he's not welcomed in his own neighborhood anymore and you probably won't have any dealings with him. People like that, tend to feed off of the challenge of aggresion. They seek it out because it satisfies something within their own personality. The more you fight with him, the more comfortable he will become with the fight. Don't fight with him, and he won't know what to do. Rely on the law to handle his behaviour.
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