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Old 12-02-2013, 02:47 PM
 
5,329 posts, read 6,119,231 times
Reputation: 2619

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It's clear some people aren't going to be happy here, compared to what they consider home, for a variety of reasons (traffic, COL, density, demographics, English ability of some of the population).

When it comes to issues like traffic, posters here typically are asking for information (or giving it). What's the best route from x to y? When to avoid I-95? Updates on Metrorail construction.

Cost of living issues, beyond the scattered posts of "Oh my God! Housing is insanely high!" likewise tend to have posts in search of answers, like "for this money, where can I get a good home with these amenities?"

But when it comes to issues involving the population, some people aren't looking for solutions, they just want to gripe. About immigrants. About sanctuary cities. About poor English. About people speaking other languages in their earshot. About racial issues. These are things they probably didn't encounter much in their former homes.

But this area generally is very good about dealing with and accepting diversity in the population, so many people aren't going to be sympathetic to posts that are just complaints, instead of questions looking for answers.

In the case of inadequate customer service, due to language challenges or not, the answer is to speak to management, write corporate headquarters, or similar. I don't think this is something the forum denizens can solve with their responses.
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Old 12-02-2013, 02:51 PM
 
Location: DMV
10,136 posts, read 11,610,257 times
Reputation: 3181
Quote:
Originally Posted by tysonsengineer View Post
You don't get it do you. They get minimum wage, ie $200 a week. YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR.

Don't like the stores that have people who can't help you (regardless of race) then STOP GOING THERE. People who work hard, get more than $200 a week, and they work at stores and places where merit is rewarded via commission/raises/prospects of management.

Free market- jebus

PS clearly you have never worked a minimum wage job before (I did as a teenager) and no, there are absolutely no educational requirements. They usually require english speaking, but some don't even do that (such as janitors, non-servers/non-cashiers) etc. The anecdote being argued isn't even an issue of "not speaking english" the guy is just a whining little internet troll who couldn't find a product and straight away blamed the "non-english speaker" who from the sound of it speaks english

I speak english, therefore I get paid more. I also have a Bachelors in Engineer, therefore I get paid more. I also have a PE and get paid more.

And the point is what?
You are making yourself look really bad on here. For starters as was pointed out, "he" is a she.

Second agree to disagree and move on. I have seen you post the same thing 3 times and no matter how many times you post it my mind won't change.

Third, there you go again. My first job was a minimum wage working with several people...wait for it....that couldn't speak English. I understand where you are coming from but I don't think the feeling is mutual.

If you disagree make your own thread with your own views meanwhile move on guy
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Old 12-02-2013, 02:55 PM
 
Location: Tysons Corner
2,772 posts, read 3,639,887 times
Reputation: 1495
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgtvatitans View Post
You are making yourself look really bad on here. For starters as was pointed out, "he" is a she.

Second agree to disagree and move on. I have seen you post the same thing 3 times and no matter how many times you post it my mind won't change.

Third, there you go again. My first job was a minimum wage working with several people...wait for it....that couldn't speak English. I understand where you are coming from but I don't think the feeling is mutual.

If you disagree make your own thread with your own views meanwhile move on guy
When did I say minimum wage working people didn't speak english. I have said exactly the same, that that is the case. Re-read what I write.

The rest of your babble is your opinion. Doesn't change mine. So long as the OP continues on with the ruse of the Target incident, I will be here repeating what I said.

Don't like bad service retail? Stop being cheap and go to a place that pays better.

Why would I make my own thread. Is this your first experience on a forum. Of course it isnt because whenever something "conservative" or anti immigrant is discussed on this forum you are soon to follow with your opinion.
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Old 12-02-2013, 03:03 PM
 
Location: DMV
10,136 posts, read 11,610,257 times
Reputation: 3181
Quote:
Originally Posted by robbobobbo View Post
So do you propose a cause to raise awareness to your way of thinking, and hope it catches on to the point that the status quo changes? Do you think that's likely to succeed? Would you want a national language proficiency standard for employability? Or just for employers by and large to adopt hiring changes? How should an employer react to a market where there are fewer English-skilled applicants to English-challenged applicants for the job positions they have (and wages they'll pay)?



In my younger years I worked low-paying blue collar jobs where some of the American-born, white workers had failed and dropped out of high school, so ostensibly they failed English yet held a job. Of course, they could speak English, albeit with idiosyncrasies and incorrect usage.

Now I'm in a professional job, working alongside native-born Americans of English language heritage, and foreign-born and 1st generation immigrants from South Korea, China, India, Pakistan, etc. Those with a different first language have varying levels of understandability in their spoken English and usually worse abilities in written English. But they can write computer software and understand the requirements.
The only thing honestly I would want is businesses to stop putting those individuals in a position where they have to speak to people to be productive. If your job function requires you to talk and you can't then you don't qualify. Easier said than done.

I agree and I used a similar point earlier. The problem is if there are different standards used for people who not native? If you are accommodated with little to no English and you can make a living and survive here what is the incentive to learn English? I know there is not a simple answer but I am trying to give a native perspective without being contentious to nonnatives like yourself.
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Old 12-02-2013, 03:07 PM
 
Location: NoVa
18,434 posts, read 29,390,516 times
Reputation: 19624
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgtvatitans View Post
The only thing honestly I would want is businesses to stop putting those individuals in a position where they have to speak to people to be productive. If your job function requires you to talk and you can't then you don't qualify. Easier said than done.

I agree and I used a similar point earlier. The problem is if there are different standards used for people who not native? If you are accommodated with little to no English and you can make a living and survive here what is the incentive to learn English? I know there is not a simple answer but I am trying to give a native perspective without being contentious to nonnatives like yourself.
I agree with this.
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Old 12-02-2013, 04:02 PM
 
Location: New-Dentist Colony
5,738 posts, read 8,937,269 times
Reputation: 3857
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pikantari View Post
I looked in and out of the isles and area where I felt it should be and I didn't find it.
Wait--you looked in and out of the "isles"? As in the British Isles? The Pacific Isles? The scenic Isles of Langerhans?

Whichever is the case, that's a long way to go for stationery.

Look, I can actually relate to some of your frustration. But the world is getting smaller. Has been for some time. Almost all the people you complain about would kill to be able to snap their fingers and instantly learn fluent English. It's easy to say they should be able to learn English in a short amount of time. But for adults--especially those whose native language is far different from English--this is difficult. There's a reason that the State Department gives its foreign staffers (who are overall more linguistically inclined than the average American) three years in Tunisia to learn Arabic. Add to this the cost of intensive English lessons and the time it takes for classes, when most new immigrants are trying to make ends meet with two or three jobs, and you see why it can take a long time to achieve functional fluency.

And think of it this way: If in your shopping experience you take the time to explain to the person what it is you're looking for, you can take satisfaction in teaching them something. With enough such instances, the person will learn all the nuances of meaning that are relevant to the job.

As to the ostensible topic of this thread: I don't think there is much stigma to being foreign-born per se, except among diehard nedrecks, who are not prevalent in NoVa. The stigma one might think of is actually the stigma of poverty or lack of fluency in English.
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Old 12-02-2013, 04:25 PM
 
5,329 posts, read 6,119,231 times
Reputation: 2619
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgtvatitans View Post
The only thing honestly I would want is businesses to stop putting those individuals in a position where they have to speak to people to be productive. If your job function requires you to talk and you can't then you don't qualify. Easier said than done.

I agree and I used a similar point earlier. The problem is if there are different standards used for people who not native? If you are accommodated with little to no English and you can make a living and survive here what is the incentive to learn English? I know there is not a simple answer but I am trying to give a native perspective without being contentious to nonnatives like yourself.
I'm a WASP born in the USA who moved from a southern state to NoVA in the 1970s, and my ancestry on this continent goes back to colonial times.

I don't know what made you think I'm non-native other than the fact I have expressed sympathetic feelings towards people who move to other countries without fluency in the host country's language.
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Old 12-02-2013, 04:37 PM
 
2,612 posts, read 4,752,237 times
Reputation: 3943
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgtvatitans View Post
Maybe it's because I am relatively new to northern VA but it seems like the topics dealing with foreign born are particularly polarizing. I was just reading a thread that talked about problems with people not speaking English before it was subsequently shut down. My question is though why are people so upset when points like that are made? Is it wrong to express frustration about not being able to communicate with other individuals especially when there are services that are to be rendered? You may not agree with the poster's viewpoint but couldn't you at least empathize with not being able to communicate? Is that not reason to be frustrated?

By the way before anyone says it. I will point out that I think it is fair to expect people to speak English in this country only because In order to become a legal citizen you must be able to read, write and speak fluent English. Is it easy? No, but it is important. Road signs aren't written in Portuguese after all. I can see this being a big issue in northern VA with all the foreign born residents, but how do you draw a line? Is it really okay for people to be in a place of service and not be able to speak the "common" language or should you at least have an expectation that businesses that do this should not be patronized.

Can we have a civil conversation please? Thank you.
How do you know they aren't trying? When you meet someone who doesn't speak English well, do you stop to chat or just get annoyed and walk away? I teach ESL and I have guys that come to my class at night after 8-10 grueling hours of manual labor (in the summer). I have many students who are trying their best to learn English, spending what little money and free time they have sitting in my class. I always tell them that it's important to go out and speak English with Americans and practice their language in real life. Some do, but many tell me that they are afraid to try to speak with Americans, because so often those people get annoyed and are rude to them because they don't speak English well enough. And those are precisely the Americans that complain the loudest about how foreigners and immigrants don't learn English.
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Old 12-02-2013, 06:52 PM
 
Location: DMV
10,136 posts, read 11,610,257 times
Reputation: 3181
Quote:
Originally Posted by robbobobbo View Post
I'm a WASP born in the USA who moved from a southern state to NoVA in the 1970s, and my ancestry on this continent goes back to colonial times.

I don't know what made you think I'm non-native other than the fact I have expressed sympathetic feelings towards people who move to other countries without fluency in the host country's language.
I apologize I confused you with another poster.
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Old 12-02-2013, 07:00 PM
 
Location: DMV
10,136 posts, read 11,610,257 times
Reputation: 3181
Quote:
Originally Posted by marie5v View Post
How do you know they aren't trying? When you meet someone who doesn't speak English well, do you stop to chat or just get annoyed and walk away? I teach ESL and I have guys that come to my class at night after 8-10 grueling hours of manual labor (in the summer). I have many students who are trying their best to learn English, spending what little money and free time they have sitting in my class. I always tell them that it's important to go out and speak English with Americans and practice their language in real life. Some do, but many tell me that they are afraid to try to speak with Americans, because so often those people get annoyed and are rude to them because they don't speak English well enough. And those are precisely the Americans that complain the loudest about how foreigners and immigrants don't learn English.
I'm sorry. I don't recall ever suggesting that they aren't trying. Not sure how I can address something I never said.
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