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Old 03-24-2015, 01:51 PM
 
Location: New-Dentist Colony
5,739 posts, read 8,950,593 times
Reputation: 3857

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Another bridge crossing? Really? Let's see. Right now we have:

1. American Legion Bridge (495)
2. Chain Bridge
3. Teddy Roosevelt Bridge (66)
4. Memorial Bridge
5. 14th Street Bridge (395)
6. Woodrow Wilson Bridge (495)
7. And on the MD side, I count eight bridges crossing the Anacostia from Maryland.
8. EDIT: And the Key Bridge!

How many river crossings do we need?

It would be a lot cheaper to just run more trains on the Blue and Yellow. This could be paid for by de-unionizing the WMATA workforce.

Maybe they should start a ferry service from Old Town or DCA to Haines Point/Ft. McNair/Maine Avenue.

Last edited by Carlingtonian; 03-24-2015 at 02:59 PM..
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Old 03-24-2015, 02:04 PM
 
3,156 posts, read 8,102,168 times
Reputation: 1977
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlingtonian View Post
Another bridge crossing? Really? Let's see. Right now we have:

1. American Legion Bridge (495)
2. Chain Bridge
3. Teddy Roosevelt Bridge (66)
4. Memorial Bridge
5. 14th Street Bridge (395)
6. Woodrow Wilson Bridge (495)
7. And on the MD side, the Sousa Bridge.

How many river crossings do we need?
How are these relevant to Blue/Yellow line issues? None of them are train crossings.

Quote:
It would be a lot cheaper to just run more trains on the Blue and Yellow. This could be paid for by de-unionizing the WMATA workforce.
You cannot run any more Blue line trains without either running fewer Silver and Orange line trains or building another crossing.

Quote:
Maybe they should start a ferry service from Old Town or DCA to Haines Point/Ft. McNair/Maine Avenue.
This would only be convenient for the few people who live in Old Town and work near the DC waterfront. If you don't live in Old Town, you would need to board a bus to get to the ferry. If you don't work near the DC waterfront, you'd need to walk or bus to Metro.
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Old 03-24-2015, 02:19 PM
 
Location: Chester County, PA
1,077 posts, read 1,429,233 times
Reputation: 1033
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlingtonian View Post
It would be a lot cheaper to just run more trains on the Blue and Yellow. This could be paid for by de-unionizing the WMATA workforce.
As I understand the current state of affairs, the Rosslyn tunnel is currently at full capacity (which I seem to recall is 26 trains per hour). With it's existing setup, there are no more Blue/Orange/Silver Line trains that can be pushed through the Rosslyn tunnel, so even if there was funding for more trains, they couldn't do it. However, they could increase all of the 6 car trains to 8 car trains, which would increase capacity, but they would still not be able to increase the frequency of trains. I think that is why many people argue that the only long-term solution is for there to be another crossing for Metro across or under the Potomac. Let's imagine the demand for Metro on the Silver/Orange/Blue Lines in 20 years - are 26 trains per hour between those 3 lines going to cut it? I sort of think not.

The Yellow Line bridge is a different story - it is not at capacity, but I don't think there is actually existing demand for the Yellow Line to run more trains. Metro has tried to encourage Blue Line riders to shift towards Yellow Line trains, but I think that has been met with mixed success.
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Old 03-24-2015, 02:36 PM
 
Location: New-Dentist Colony
5,739 posts, read 8,950,593 times
Reputation: 3857
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcity View Post
This would only be convenient for the few people who live in Old Town and work near the DC waterfront. If you don't live in Old Town, you would need to board a bus to get to the ferry. If you don't work near the DC waterfront, you'd need to walk or bus to Metro.
The DC waterfront has four Metro stations, all on the Green Line, which of course connects to the rest of DC via L'Enfant Plaza and Metro Center. And there are multiple bus lines that go from the waterfront to pretty much everywhere in DC.

Adding more bridges just isn't feasible--nowhere to put them on either end, and no way to provide the hundreds of millions (if not billions) it would cost to build.

Airjay--adding cars to make them all 8-car trains is a good start. I just think it's ridiculous that an entire river sits there mostly empty of boat traffic on the weekdays, when it wouldn't cost that much (compared to building a new bridge or tunnel) to add a commuter port on both sides.
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Old 03-24-2015, 02:42 PM
 
Location: Metro Washington DC
13,044 posts, read 19,876,953 times
Reputation: 7652
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlingtonian View Post
Another bridge crossing? Really? Let's see. Right now we have:

1. American Legion Bridge (495)
2. Chain Bridge
3. Teddy Roosevelt Bridge (66)
4. Memorial Bridge
5. 14th Street Bridge (395)
6. Woodrow Wilson Bridge (495)
7. And on the MD side, the Sousa Bridge.

How many river crossings do we need?

It would be a lot cheaper to just run more trains on the Blue and Yellow. This could be paid for by de-unionizing the WMATA workforce.

Maybe they should start a ferry service from Old Town or DCA to Haines Point/Ft. McNair/Maine Avenue.
We need one more bridge from Sterling to Gaithersburg/Germantown.

Wish they could just run more trains, but there isn't room in the tunnel for more.
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Old 03-24-2015, 03:09 PM
 
Location: Chester County, PA
1,077 posts, read 1,429,233 times
Reputation: 1033
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlingtonian View Post
Airjay--adding cars to make them all 8-car trains is a good start. I just think it's ridiculous that an entire river sits there mostly empty of boat traffic on the weekdays, when it wouldn't cost that much (compared to building a new bridge or tunnel) to add a commuter port on both sides.
Yeah, the ferry idea is certainly an idea worth considering. I wonder whether it's been studied much. My initial thoughts center on how people get to the ferry station on the Virginia side - do they drive and park at the ferry station? Do they take Metro and walk/take a bus? Then, I start to think, well, would Metro commuters take the time to deal with a transfer or would they just opt for dealing with the increasingly crowded and delayed Metro and/or just decide to drive? I don't know. Maybe there's a way to make it work or at least to help alleviate the pressure on our roads and on Metro.

I still think that long-term, something has to be done to increase capacity at the Rosslyn tunnel - whether that's expanding the Rosslyn tunnel, building another crossing just for Metro, making some sort of way for Blue Line trains to terminate at Rosslyn and turn around, I don't know. I tend to think the Silver Line really should not have even been built until capacity at the core of the Metro system was expanded. I think the Silver Line is going to put more and more pressure on the system, and our elected leaders are only going to start seriously considering a solution long after the problem is a very bad one. But, that's our political system these days - only react to problems once they've skyrocketed out of control. But, I digress.
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Old 03-24-2015, 04:19 PM
 
Location: Beautiful and sanitary DC
1,490 posts, read 2,158,968 times
Reputation: 1386
Ferries are a romantic notion, but they're hardly practical.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlingtonian View Post
The DC waterfront has four Metro stations, all on the Green Line, which of course connects to the rest of DC via L'Enfant Plaza and Metro Center. And there are multiple bus lines that go from the waterfront to pretty much everywhere in DC.
I live right on the waterfront, and it's news to me that buses go from here to anywhere. There are some that head EOTR, one that goes to Chinatown, and a bunch that just go up around L'Enfant Plaza. The actual Metro stations are several blocks inland, the better to keep them from flooding during storms.

Quote:
Originally Posted by airjay75 View Post
Yeah, the ferry idea is certainly an idea worth considering. I wonder whether it's been studied much. My initial thoughts center on how people get to the ferry station on the Virginia side - do they drive and park at the ferry station? Do they take Metro and walk/take a bus?
This is the biggest problem with river transit: our job centers and transportation hubs aren't right on the water. You'd have to get large numbers of people down to them, and places like Old Town Alexandria just aren't cut out for that.

Even if the land-side geometries were better, even "fast ferries" typically travel around 30 MPH, and get some pretty awful fuel economy. You could run ships at higher speeds by lifting the boat up out of the water to minimize displacement, but that makes for a super choppy ride and seriously stresses the hull. A friend of mine's a sailor, lives blocks from SF bay, and takes trans-bay ferries on occasion, and even he can't see the business case for vastly expanding that system.

Last edited by paytonc; 03-24-2015 at 04:30 PM..
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Old 03-24-2015, 07:35 PM
 
Location: Alexandria, VA
755 posts, read 1,517,446 times
Reputation: 589
Quote:
Originally Posted by airjay75 View Post
Yeah, the ferry idea is certainly an idea worth considering. I wonder whether it's been studied much. My initial thoughts center on how people get to the ferry station on the Virginia side - do they drive and park at the ferry station? Do they take Metro and walk/take a bus? Then, I start to think, well, would Metro commuters take the time to deal with a transfer or would they just opt for dealing with the increasingly crowded and delayed Metro and/or just decide to drive? I don't know. Maybe there's a way to make it work or at least to help alleviate the pressure on our roads and on Metro.

I still think that long-term, something has to be done to increase capacity at the Rosslyn tunnel - whether that's expanding the Rosslyn tunnel, building another crossing just for Metro, making some sort of way for Blue Line trains to terminate at Rosslyn and turn around, I don't know. I tend to think the Silver Line really should not have even been built until capacity at the core of the Metro system was expanded. I think the Silver Line is going to put more and more pressure on the system, and our elected leaders are only going to start seriously considering a solution long after the problem is a very bad one. But, that's our political system these days - only react to problems once they've skyrocketed out of control. But, I digress.
I completely agree! The Silver line addition I believe added premature and unnecessary stress to an already stressed system. Imagine a ride to the end of the silver line now is publshed at 40 minutes, which in reality is probably more like 45-50, imagine when it extends into Ashburn, they will have to run more silver trains to keep up with the demand of ~6 minute intervals during rush hour; that means someone is going to have to pay, either blue or orange riders. Why is metro being used as a commuter train?

I don't understand why metro doesn't run express trains like in NY. They know their ridership by station, so why not have every other train service say the highest 4-6 stations on each line??? There has got to be a way to get this defunct failure back on track.
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Old 03-24-2015, 07:48 PM
 
Location: Alexandria, VA
755 posts, read 1,517,446 times
Reputation: 589
By the way where does VRE and Amtrak cross the Potomac?
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Old 03-24-2015, 08:04 PM
 
3,156 posts, read 8,102,168 times
Reputation: 1977
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnalyzeThis View Post
By the way where does VRE and Amtrak cross the Potomac?
Near the 14th Street bridge.
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