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A fews questions to all of you who are defending illegal immigration:
Do you have any flophouses filled with illegal aliens in your neighborhood? Have you seen your local public schools go into decline due to illegal immigration? Or have you seen local property values decline?
I'm guessing that the answer to each question will be "no".
Oh...and for those of you whose hearts bleed for these kids, go ahead and foster several of them. The government will pay you quite well to do so:
A fews questions to all of you who are defending illegal immigration:
Do you have any flophouses filled with illegal aliens in your neighborhood? Have you seen your local public schools go into decline due to illegal immigration? Or have you seen local property values decline?
I'm guessing that the answer to each question will be "no".
Oh...and for those of you whose hearts bleed for these kids, go ahead and foster several of them. The government will pay you quite well to do so:
Speaking for myself, I am not defending illegal immigration. I am defending the rule of law and humane treatment of people, especially children. Opposing illegal immigration doesn't require screaming at buses of children, demonizing the immigrants (especially children), or pitching a fit at the government following legal process.
I lived in Arlington in the 80s and 90s, during which time many poor Hispanics lived there. Whether or not they were legal - many were given refugee status due to Central American wars - they consumed social services. And yet Arlington did just fine.
Here we're not even talking about permanent residency for these children (well, some advocate for that but the government is not taking that path), and people are behaving in a most shameful way about simply taking care of kids while they are worked through the system for eventual deportation.
Do you realize that 11,000 of the 56,000 who were caught were Mexicans and immediately returned to Mexico?
But because of a 2008 law, the ones from non-contiguous countries must appear before an immigration judge. So what happens to them meantime? What's your suggestion?
Do you realize that 11,000 of the 56,000 who were caught were Mexicans and immediately returned to Mexico?
But because of a 2008 law, the ones from non-contiguous countries must appear before an immigration judge. So what happens to them meantime? What's your suggestion?
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^How do you know that only 11,000 of them are Mexican? Since Mexicans can be sent back, it is believed that many Mexican kids were instructed to say that they were from another country.
Some reps and senators are now introducing bills that would send the kids from non-contiguous countries right back home---and these reps and senators are from both sides of the aisle.
This law has been in effect since 2008 yet we've never had an onslaught like this one. It has been reported that TV commercials in El Salvador, Honduras and Guatemala have been encouraging this exodus as of late. You do have to ask yourself why this is happening right now, especially when this law has been in effect all these years.
My suggestion---change the law ASAP and send these kids back.
Right now, no one knows how many of these kids have died in the hot desert or have been victims of crime in Mexico. We have adults pretending to be teenagers trying to get in on this.
As I pointed out, you can get in touch with the government as they are paying quite well to foster these kids.
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I lived in Arlington in the 80s and 90s, during which time many poor Hispanics lived there. Whether or not they were legal - many were given refugee status due to Central American wars - they consumed social services. And yet Arlington did just fine.
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Did you actually live in one of the same neighborhoods where these people lived, and are still living? For example, did you live in Arlandria?
Arlington did "just fine"? People who had kids in school with the kids of the illegal aliens may beg to differ. People who lived next door to flophouses also may beg to differ. How many of those social services did illegal aliens consume that could have---and should have gone to American citizens and legal immigrants?
It's easy to say a community that has illegal aliens is "doing fine" when you don't live in the same area where the illegal aliens are living.
BTW, there is a difference between legal immigrants and illegal aliens. Please don't try to blur the lines. Illegal aliens have no business being here and need to leave. Just as you or I, for example, would have no business being in Mexico illegally.
A fews questions to all of you who are defending illegal immigration:
Do you have any flophouses filled with illegal aliens in your neighborhood? Have you seen your local public schools go into decline due to illegal immigration? Or have you seen local property values decline?
I'm guessing that the answer to each question will be "no".
Oh...and for those of you whose hearts bleed for these kids, go ahead and foster several of them. The government will pay you quite well to do so:
Smug arrogance is an ugly characteristic, and so typical of right-wing talking points. Yes, my heart bleeds for these kids. I'm glad I have the capacity for empathy. Some of us are able to look beyond our own noses and our own selfish needs. Callous indifference to, and mocking of the plight of others, I think, is a character disorder, and all to common in the modern world, especially among conservatives.
It is possible to simultaneously believe it immoral to send people back to the war zone from which they fled while also opposing an absence of public policy that results in illegal flophouses. I take both positions--as I suspect do most of you.
Our country has, for a long time, had a mixture of band-aid policies on illegal immigration--one of which is turning a blind eye. For so many years, we did only halfhearted enforcement of the borders, while not requiring employers to check citizenship papers at all. All the while, the economy continued to grow, Americans continued to shun the really hard jobs--just ask California farmers whose crops have rotted in the ground the past few season for lack of picking labor--and things got worse in Latin America.
As others have noted, the largely Republican business community welcomed the cheap illegal labor, while the largely Democratic Hispanic-American electorate supported a further increase in people culturally like themselves. The Rs gave lip service to opposing illegal immigration--and then Reagan did blanket amnesty in the '80s. The Ds refused to acknowledge that we should have any immigration policy whatsoever or that we ought to consciously and consistently control who enters our country, because somehow it seemed racist to many Dems, and meanwhile the country kept getting more Hispanic, and the ones who vote usually vote the D column.
At the same time, local jurisdictions were too unmotivated, fearful, underfunded, or all three to put a stop to overoccupied multifamily homes in lower-middle-class areas. Do I want a house next door with 10 adult men who all get picked up at 5AM by someone honking the horn from a white panel van and think throwing trash on the ground is socially acceptable? Who may have committed crimes in their home country? No. But that doesn't mean I think we should send a bunch of kids back to a civil war.
A few things are incontrovertible:
The current group consists mostly of children.
They are fleeing a civil war.
The United States had a major role in destablizing Latin America.
The United States for decades sent mixed messages regarding how much we really cared about enforcing our immigration laws.
If Ireland and Germany were next door to the USA, my ancestors would have had no qualms about sneaking in illegally.
We have the money to fulfill the basic requirements of mercy and compassion.
Doing the latter does not mean we should dump them all in one area--including PW County--or fail to ask anything in return, like learning English, becoming citizens, and paying taxes.
Last edited by Carlingtonian; 07-17-2014 at 04:49 PM..
The current group consists of children.
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^Not all of them are children. If you have seen any photos, you will see many who are over 18 and claiming that they are kids. Plus some of them do have their mothers with them.
War zone or not---Who allows young kids to travel unaccompanied? How irresponsible is that?
Those countries have had civil wars before yet, there never was such a huge influx like this. Why isn't Mexico stepping up to the plate? Why are they allowing these unaccompanied kids to travel without being challenged? Many of these kids are vulnerable when it comes to predators. No one knows how many have been victimized.
We don't have the money! We are deep in debt. Plus we have millions of suffering underemployed and unemployed Americans, who come in every race, religion and ethnicity, who need our help. Charity starts at home.
Yes, we need to enforce our immigration laws and not allow illegal aliens to remain here. Doing so is a slap in the face to the millions of legal immigrants who obeyed our immigration laws and patiently awaited their turn to come here, with some waiting years in refugee camps.
I agree with you about flophouses and local jurisdictions refusing to step up to the plate and clean up the problem. Part of the problem is that there are state laws in place that tie their hands. For example, state law says each person is allowed 50 sq. ft. of living space per house, which is ridiculous. So, an efficiency apartment with 250 sq. ft of living space should allow 5 people? Also, people who put additions on their property without a permit get away with it because inspectors, by law, are only allowed to inspect places that have permits.
Smug arrogance is an ugly characteristic, and so typical of right-wing talking points. Yes, my heart bleeds for these kids. I'm glad I have the capacity for empathy. Some of us are able to look beyond our own noses and our own selfish needs. Callous indifference to, and mocking of the plight of others, I think, is a character disorder, and all to common in the modern world, especially among conservatives.
All you have to offer is insults and name-calling.
Please educate yourself. Not everybody who is against illegal immigration is "right wing".
Selfish needs? So tending to our own suffering citizens amounts to "selfish needs"? Wow!
You don't have empathy for suffering Americans. And you aren't stepping up to the plate to foster these illegal alien kids. It's time for you to walk the walk.
Not all of them are children. If you have seen any photos, you will see many who are over 18 and claiming that they are kids. Plus some of them do have their mothers with them.
So we should let the kids stay but send their mothers back? Really?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOS2IAD
War zone or not---Who allows young kids to travel unaccompanied? How irresponsible is that?
Some of their parents are probably dead. Others couldn't afford to pay the "coyotes" to smuggle more than just their child(ren).
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOS2IAD
Those countries have had civil wars before yet, there never was such a huge influx like this. Why isn't Mexico stepping up to the plate? Why are they allowing these unaccompanied kids to travel without being challenged? Many of these kids are vulnerable when it comes to predators. No one knows how many have been victimized.
I don't know. Clearly it's bad they're traveling alone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOS2IAD
We don't have the money! We are deep in debt. Plus we have millions of suffering underemployed and unemployed Americans, who come in every race, religion and ethnicity, who need our help. Charity starts at home.
We have plenty of money. We're just wasting it on stupid defense programs like the Joint Strike Fighter. And I work for DoD. But I agree we should do more to help our own citizens as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOS2IAD
Yes, we need to enforce our immigration laws and not allow illegal aliens to remain here. Doing so is a slap in the face to the millions of legal immigrants who obeyed our immigration laws and patiently awaited their turn to come here, with some waiting years in refugee camps.
My wife was a refugee from a civil war overseas, as was her whole family. I think it's wrong to turn away refugees. I also think it's wrong to turn away people whose condition *should* give them refugee status. As I said earlier, we're not talking about some middle-aged plumber from Guadalajara who wants to double his income. That guy should get in line. But kids or adults fleeing a war zone? Let 'em in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOS2IAD
I agree with you about flophouses and local jurisdictions refusing to step up to the plate and clean up the problem. Part of the problem is that there are state laws in place that tie their hands. For example, state law says each person is allowed 50 sq. ft. of living space per house, which is ridiculous. So, an efficiency apartment with 250 sq. ft of living space should allow 5 people? Also, people who put additions on their property without a permit get away with it because inspectors, by law, are only allowed to inspect places that have permits.
You may be right; I haven't delved that deeply into local housing regs. But if we had a conscious, overt, consistent, and well-funded policy toward illegal immigration from Latin America, we could find a better solution.
All you have to offer is insults and name-calling.
Please educate yourself. Not everybody who is against illegal immigration is "right wing".
Selfish needs? So tending to our own suffering citizens amounts to "selfish needs"? Wow!
You don't have empathy for suffering Americans. And you aren't stepping up to the plate to foster these illegal alien kids. It's time for you to walk the walk.
I never said I was in favor of illegal immigration. We have a unique situation we have to deal with on the border. We need to deal with this as humanely as possible. I have loads of empathy for suffering Americans, and I've worked with the indigent homeless, chemically dependent adults and at-risk kids through Catholic Charities. Some of them were illegal, but I treated them with the same respect and dignity. The only people I find truly undeserving of my time and respect are those of us who attack and mock the powerless.
That's funny that someone called me sheep when you are the one parroting everything pro illegals have said. You are just parroting what other pro illegals say instead of showing facts. I look at different sources for my news as everyone should. Anyone who reads a newspaper knows that these are not children only. And, a lot of the children are older teenagers who are in gangs.
You people must not have ever had illegals trash a whole neighborhood with about 20 people living in one house. Or be involved in an accident which they have caused because they can't read English. Most of them run like crazy, and the police say they can't do anything because even if they do find out who the vehicle is owned by, when they go to their house, with translators, the illegals say someone took their car. The women have so many kids, they have a scam going where they try to get people to claim their anchor babies as their own, on their income tax, then they split the taxes with them. They have so many kids, (free of course) they rake in a lot of money that way. They even have booklets in Mexico teaching their residents how to cross the border and work the system in America. I'm just as angry with our government as I am with the illegals. They created this mess by catering to their every want. What we should do is adopt Mexico's immigration laws.
You guys need to read this. This woman studied and researched the illegal situation, and she's great.
by Dandiday.
Hey, Folks, let's not turn what was a simple question into more hate-mongering against each other. We're all American citizens here (???), and trying to discuss a problem that many people do not realize is affecting them!
So, how is the problem of illegal aliens affecting us ALL??? Through costs (increase in taxes and affecting our National debt by increasing it by another 50% in 2010 dollars), job availability (people not being hired in California and Texas because they're not bi-lingual with Spanish), crime (see below), diseases (brought by the "kids" recently coming in ...such as, TREATMENT RESISTANT TUBERCULOSIS), and by decreasing funds to our military, thus decreasing our "readiness" to protect our nation.
this, folks, only scratches the surface!!!! There are so many other deleterious effects that we will suffer as a nation, and are suffering NOW. But the average person doesn't know what's really going on. Hence, these protests, are in part, to raise awareness, and to prompt more education on the subject of the PROBLEM of ILLEGAL ALIENS.
You know, this "illegal alien" problem really didn't bother me or affect me at first. Trouble was, I was blissfully innocent of what was really going on...until I lived in South Texas. The 2-3 border counties there are the POOREST in the nation, and suffer from the impact of the illegals traversing through.
FACT:
There have been over640,000 crimes over 7 years in south Texas, including these counties, by ILLEGAL ALIENS.
***From burglary, robbery, up to rape and murder! (this was reported by the Official Report by the Border Agents as well as the police departments of various south TX cities and counties last week.)
This is absolutely, positively NOT racist, NOT hateful, and those who say so with such venom and emotion are people who usually do not know the facts, nor have done much self-educating about this topic...me included.
Over the past several weeks, I've made it a point to educate myself more on this topic. I will tell you, folks, before I continue, that we already are in deep sh*t because of our previously open borders, the distorted "Dream Act", not enforcing the deportation laws, amongst a host of other problems down there.
Tell me, WHY wouldn't you protest someone coming into YOUR house, every day of the year, and helping themselves to YOUR money, YOUR food, and sleep in YOUR bed? Or, going to your kids' schools, and taking up funds or resources that were supposed to go towards YOUR child's education, courses, sports, class educational trips, etc.? I'm sure you toiled very long for these things for your family. Would you be upset if this happened? Well, THAT IS WHAT IS HAPPENING HERE, BUT OF COURSE, ON A MUCH MUCH LARGER SCALE!!!
What if our government told all of you that you had to give away half of your possessions in your house RIGHT NOW because someone else needed it more than you??? Would you do it? I don't know about you, but I've worked my arse off and sacrificed quite a lot to work where I do, and to pay for my own education to do so.
Racist? I think not...in fact, the pro-illegals allowing those from Mexico and C.A. are racist. WHY? Because right now, there are kids HERE who need our help MORE!!!
Also, there are 10's of thousands of maimed, starving kids in war-torn African countrieswho need our help MORE. Tell me, why aren't we sending airplanes or ships THERE to bring them here? Those people are not only running for their lives, but they've already had their mothers, fathers, and family members raped and killed. Most live in shacks, tents, or under the night sky. My husband (on deployment) and his peers have seen horrendous things first-hand in Africa. In Iraq. In Afghanistan.
Tell me, why aren't we saving THOSE women and children? The women who aren't allowed outside without a sack over their heads? Their houses blown apart, and running for their lives!!!
Are you telling me that these Africans and Middle easterners are LESS WORTHY than the Mexicans and Central Americans??? . Also, tell me, WHEN DOES THE ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION STOP? Do we have a limit of the number of people??? If we allow millions of Mexicans and CA's in, why do we stop there? Why not continue, and take in ALL OF THE POOR AND DOWNTRODDEN OR FRIGHTENED IN THE ENTIRE WORLD???
Some facts that may help you decide....
We have 11+++million illegals as of 2010. The recent influx of these sol-called kids (47% are males OVER the age of 16-18, many are GANG members and CARTEL members, btw.) number almost 60,000 now, with 150,000 MORE projected to arrive over the next 2-6 months.
,
WHO is going to house them? Pay for their food? housing? Clothing? Education?
****Do you know that EACH family with illegals in it (such as, "anchor baby" homes, and other frankly all illegals in one house) causes a NET DEFICIT each year of 14K to 20K PER FAMILY. Guess who's paying for it? Yep...you and me.
Do you know how much ALL of the CURRENT illegals will cost the U.S. during their lifetime (after amnesty, they'll be on the SS or SSI roles)??? It's a NET DEFICIT of $9 TRILLION DOLLARS!!!
That's approximately 1/2 of our National Debt right now!!! We can't afford it, and it will get worse.
My family is in the military...right now, the government doesn't have the darned funds to fix the planes and equipment to make the bases run, or to protect our country. instead of training, performing health care, maintaining equipment, etc, our military is having to cut the grass and clean up around the bases. Is that what you want our soldiers doing???
Again, understand, that the US is in an economic crisis right now...WHY on earth, should we be compromising our country's safety and our tax dollars on people coming into our country ILLEGALLY???? THAT'S THE CRIME, FOLKS!
Look up the research and report on the Real Cost of Illegals by the Heritage Foundation, and you will see page upon page of substantiated reports and charts from the US Census Bureau, DHS, and the DHHS. To allow any more illegals into our country will DECIMATE us! Both through "measurable" services (welfare, food stamps, and other services), as well as through costs pertaining to education, roads, police and firefighter support, and on and on.
The panel of economists who performed all of this researched have verified everything (and they themselves have been "verified"), were "transparent" about their data and resources...bottom line, is that we MUST close our borders and start deporting illegals, as this is UNSUSTAINABLE!!!
Just stop and think about this for a moment...if, as all of the research has indicated, we don't stop the flow and don't start deporting, our America will sink and become even more poor than we are now (we're something like the 34th poorest country in the world right now...). We will SINK. We will become like the countries of Central America and Mexico!!!
Did any of you happen to see the Official Border Patrol Agency report last week with Governor Perry? Look it up...it might educate you to know what's REALLY going on with these illegals. For instance, in the past year alone, over 600 "OTM" illegals were caught who are suspected terrorists or from terrorist countries - Pakistan, Syria, etc. They say that this is a only a fraction of the suspected terrorists
who have slipped in past our border, and who've spread throughout the country. Sleeper cells, they are told. Do you want this to continue?
The Agents also said they've asked "O"bama for the National GuardRIGHT NOW, as 80% and more of the agents are "babysitting"...the border is very porous and unprotected right now. "O" wouldn't even meet them with Gov. Perry to hear directly from the Border Agents who are screaming for help!
This is tragic, and unbelievable!
There's so much more I want to say and share, along with resources that I think everyone needs to read.
I can't believe the venom here that's been posted by a few of you...sure, I have compassion, and would LOVE to help EVERY poor and threatened person on this earth. There are ways to do that without taking in every single one of them!!!
I ask you to go to the Illegal Immigration forum and read particularly the threads on the "200 protest nationwide and the march on Washington", along with "what did you see on the news last night". There is SO much information there, especially quotes from cited resources, and references and links to very informative articles. Please read, and educate yourself!!!
We MUST come up with long-term solutions that we ALL can live with...but first and foremost, we MUST close our borders, and STOP the crazy storming of our borders by these illegals...kids as well as adults.
Thanks for listening, Dandiday
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