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I never said I was in favor of illegal immigration. We have a unique situation we have to deal with on the border. We need to deal with this as humanely as possible. I have loads of empathy for suffering Americans, and I've worked with the indigent homeless, chemically dependent adults and at-risk kids through Catholic Charities. Some of them were illegal, but I treated them with the same respect and dignity. The only people I find truly undeserving of my time and respect are those of us who attack and mock the powerless.
Who is "attack[ing] and mock[ing] the powerless"?
So, how many of these kids are you planning to foster?
So we should let the kids stay but send their mothers back? Really?
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^ I don't know where you got this from! No, we send the mothers AND the kids back with them.
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Some of their parents are probably dead. Others couldn't afford to pay the "coyotes" to smuggle more than just their child(ren)
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^No decent parent hands their kids over to strangers to smuggle them out of the country. You somehow think that all these parents have altruistic motives. Hardly. Some of them think that once the kids get here they will be allowed to stay and then the parents could come here, too. How does a 5 year old make a solo trip up to the US?
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We have plenty of money. We're just wasting it on stupid defense programs like the Joint Strike Fighter. And I work for DoD. But I agree we should do more to help our own citizens as well.
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^We have plenty of money? Are we now, as a nation, operating in the black with plenty of money in reserve?
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I think it's wrong to turn away refugees. I also think it's wrong to turn away people whose condition *should* give them refugee status.
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Right now, this country has over 300 million people and we are running out of potable water. Doubt it? Do a search at WaPo. Even they had an article admitting to this.
I guess that you think that we should send cargo planes into Africa and take in every single person who is poor and suffering. BTW, these people in Africa would gladly trade places with people in El Salvador, Honduras or Guatemala. We simply can't take in the entire third world.
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I lived in Arlington in the 80s and 90s, during which time many poor Hispanics lived there. Whether or not they were legal - many were given refugee status due to Central American wars - they consumed social services. And yet Arlington did just fine.
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Did you actually live in one of the same neighborhoods where these people lived, and are still living? For example, did you live in Arlandria?
Arlington did "just fine"? People who had kids in school with the kids of the illegal aliens may beg to differ. People who lived next door to flophouses also may beg to differ. How many of those social services did illegal aliens consume that could have---and should have gone to American citizens and legal immigrants?
It's easy to say a community that has illegal aliens is "doing fine" when you don't live in the same area where the illegal aliens are living.
BTW, there is a difference between legal immigrants and illegal aliens. Please don't try to blur the lines. Illegal aliens have no business being here and need to leave. Just as you or I, for example, would have no business being in Mexico illegally.
Ok, so how do YOU tell the difference? How would you know that any particular area with many Hispanics is a community full of illegal aliens? The fact is, you wouldn't know. How is a child in school affected differently by illegal aliens being in his class, versus legal kids who get free lunch and ESL classes? You act as if "illegal alien" is a different species. How do you even know your kid's school has lots of illegal alien students?
What you really are arguing about is poor people who don't speak English. Their legal status makes no difference; the poor use public assistance and resources, they house together in large numbers, and both legal and illegal pay rent for apartments or houses, which makes its way into property taxes.
When I lived in Arlington, I lived near several section 8 apartments rife with drug sales and car break-ins. Not Arlandria, though. I actually live nearer to Arlandria now and do shopping there sometimes.
Are you the spokesperson for citizens living in the midst of illegal aliens? What's your story? Did your house value take a tumble?
Also: there is a substantial population of Koreans living in NoVA without legal status. Would you say that their presence is driving down home values and making the schools worse?
So, how many of these kids are you planning to foster?
Most likely none. I don't have to adopt a foster child in order to prove that I'm concerned about the problems at the border. If this is the only argument you have left, it's a pretty pointless one. Who's attacking/mocking the powerless? Posting half-truths from ideological websites that already had their minds made up on the issue is tantamount to attacking the powerless. These "news" organizations have dedicated themselves to a predictable ideological point of view. They never miss an opportunity to show minorities at their worst.
Who said anything about looking at people and being able to tell if they are here legally or not? Where did you get that from? What I said is don't blur the lines by lumping illegal aliens in with legal immigrants.
You don't know what you're talking about. There are poor people who don't speak English that are here legally (refugees come to mind and also Puerto Ricans).
Poor people who are American citizens or legal immigrants are eligible for welfare programs. Illegal aliens are not. However, once they have an anchor baby, said child is eligible for all sorts of welfare programs, thus the whole family benefits. For example, have an anchor baby and the whole family is eligible for Section 8 housing.
"They house together in large numbers"---Have you been paying attention? They are living in flophouses. Even if you, personally, don't have a problem with a flophouse next door to you, there are other things to think about. Overcrowded housing has been known to cause electrical fires as the electrical system was designed for one family. Plumbing fails for the same reason. Overcrowded living encourages the spread of disease. When local school systems forecast how big enrollment will be for the coming school year, it is done with the expectation that each residence will be housing one family, not several. Not to mention that overcrowded housing affects overall quality of life.
I've watched as Sterling Park went from being a blue and white collar neighborhood with a good mix of people to being overrun with illegal aliens living in flophouses. Plus crime has increased. Guilford elementary school, up until the mid to late 90s was once a good school with good teachers, decent test scores and involved parents. Today, due to illegal immigration, it can't even get full accreditation from the state. Those of us who have hung in there can tell you stories about how flophouses have made parking a nightmare for residents who live one family to a house. I have seen many people who planned to age in place in their homes end up moving---many did so with tears in their eyes. They pleaded with local officials to do something about the overcrowding, to make laws that have teeth in them, to no avail. Neither side of the aisle has the guts to do something. I've heard about single woman---young and old---who lived alone but became fearful for their safety so they sold their homes.
With all your talk about compassion for these kids, then walk the walk and foster some. If you truly read all that I've posted, you will see that I posted a link that tells you how much the government will pay you to foster them. It's not a pointless argument. You and your ilk are quick to engage in name-calling and accusing others of having no compassion but yet when push comes to shove, you refuse to put your money where your mouth is.
I just saw this:
Also: there is a substantial population of Koreans living in NoVA without legal status. Would you say that their presence is driving down home values and making the schools worse?
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I don't care where in the world an illegal alien comes from. Nor do I care if they got here by sneaking across a border or overstaying a visa. They all have one thing in common and that is this --- they have no business being here and need to leave. Just as if you were living illegally in Korea, you would have no business being there.
Yes, all illegal aliens make life worse for people. How are they holding jobs? They are either getting paid under the table, thereby not paying taxes. Or they are using a fake or stolen SSN, thereby putting the true owner of that SSN in a world of hurt. Did you know that it is NOT illegal for someone to use your SSN as long as they don't use you name with it? Right now, several people could be using your SSN but the SSA won't tell you. You only find out when the IRS comes after you for not filing a tax return on some job you never worked. Food for thought.
If these Korean kids are going to public schools without knowing English, yes, they are making the schools worse. Even if they do know English, their families have no business being here.
Why bring up Koreans? In the past, ICE has deported illegals back to 189 different countries. 189 different countries covers every race, religion and ethnicity. Who knows how many different countries are represented among the illegal population in this area? What does it matter where they are from? None of them have any business being here.
That's funny that someone called me sheep when you are the one parroting everything pro illegals have said. You are just parroting what other pro illegals say instead of showing facts. I look at different sources for my news as everyone should. Anyone who reads a newspaper knows that these are not children only. And, a lot of the children are older teenagers who are in gangs.
You people must not have ever had illegals trash a whole neighborhood with about 20 people living in one house. Or be involved in an accident which they have caused because they can't read English. Most of them run like crazy, and the police say they can't do anything because even if they do find out who the vehicle is owned by, when they go to their house, with translators, the illegals say someone took their car. The women have so many kids, they have a scam going where they try to get people to claim their anchor babies as their own, on their income tax, then they split the taxes with them. They have so many kids, (free of course) they rake in a lot of money that way. They even have booklets in Mexico teaching their residents how to cross the border and work the system in America. I'm just as angry with our government as I am with the illegals. They created this mess by catering to their every want. What we should do is adopt Mexico's immigration laws.
You guys need to read this. This woman studied and researched the illegal situation, and she's great.
by Dandiday.
Hey, Folks, let's not turn what was a simple question into more hate-mongering against each other. We're all American citizens here (???), and trying to discuss a problem that many people do not realize is affecting them!
So, how is the problem of illegal aliens affecting us ALL??? Through costs (increase in taxes and affecting our National debt by increasing it by another 50% in 2010 dollars), job availability (people not being hired in California and Texas because they're not bi-lingual with Spanish), crime (see below), diseases (brought by the "kids" recently coming in ...such as, TREATMENT RESISTANT TUBERCULOSIS), and by decreasing funds to our military, thus decreasing our "readiness" to protect our nation.
this, folks, only scratches the surface!!!! There are so many other deleterious effects that we will suffer as a nation, and are suffering NOW. But the average person doesn't know what's really going on. Hence, these protests, are in part, to raise awareness, and to prompt more education on the subject of the PROBLEM of ILLEGAL ALIENS.
You know, this "illegal alien" problem really didn't bother me or affect me at first. Trouble was, I was blissfully innocent of what was really going on...until I lived in South Texas. The 2-3 border counties there are the POOREST in the nation, and suffer from the impact of the illegals traversing through.
FACT:
There have been over640,000 crimes over 7 years in south Texas, including these counties, by ILLEGAL ALIENS.
***From burglary, robbery, up to rape and murder! (this was reported by the Official Report by the Border Agents as well as the police departments of various south TX cities and counties last week.)
This is absolutely, positively NOT racist, NOT hateful, and those who say so with such venom and emotion are people who usually do not know the facts, nor have done much self-educating about this topic...me included.
Over the past several weeks, I've made it a point to educate myself more on this topic. I will tell you, folks, before I continue, that we already are in deep sh*t because of our previously open borders, the distorted "Dream Act", not enforcing the deportation laws, amongst a host of other problems down there.
Tell me, WHY wouldn't you protest someone coming into YOUR house, every day of the year, and helping themselves to YOUR money, YOUR food, and sleep in YOUR bed? Or, going to your kids' schools, and taking up funds or resources that were supposed to go towards YOUR child's education, courses, sports, class educational trips, etc.? I'm sure you toiled very long for these things for your family. Would you be upset if this happened? Well, THAT IS WHAT IS HAPPENING HERE, BUT OF COURSE, ON A MUCH MUCH LARGER SCALE!!!
What if our government told all of you that you had to give away half of your possessions in your house RIGHT NOW because someone else needed it more than you??? Would you do it? I don't know about you, but I've worked my arse off and sacrificed quite a lot to work where I do, and to pay for my own education to do so.
Racist? I think not...in fact, the pro-illegals allowing those from Mexico and C.A. are racist. WHY? Because right now, there are kids HERE who need our help MORE!!!
Also, there are 10's of thousands of maimed, starving kids in war-torn African countrieswho need our help MORE. Tell me, why aren't we sending airplanes or ships THERE to bring them here? Those people are not only running for their lives, but they've already had their mothers, fathers, and family members raped and killed. Most live in shacks, tents, or under the night sky. My husband (on deployment) and his peers have seen horrendous things first-hand in Africa. In Iraq. In Afghanistan.
Tell me, why aren't we saving THOSE women and children? The women who aren't allowed outside without a sack over their heads? Their houses blown apart, and running for their lives!!!
Are you telling me that these Africans and Middle easterners are LESS WORTHY than the Mexicans and Central Americans??? . Also, tell me, WHEN DOES THE ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION STOP? Do we have a limit of the number of people??? If we allow millions of Mexicans and CA's in, why do we stop there? Why not continue, and take in ALL OF THE POOR AND DOWNTRODDEN OR FRIGHTENED IN THE ENTIRE WORLD???
Some facts that may help you decide....
We have 11+++million illegals as of 2010. The recent influx of these sol-called kids (47% are males OVER the age of 16-18, many are GANG members and CARTEL members, btw.) number almost 60,000 now, with 150,000 MORE projected to arrive over the next 2-6 months.
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WHO is going to house them? Pay for their food? housing? Clothing? Education?
****Do you know that EACH family with illegals in it (such as, "anchor baby" homes, and other frankly all illegals in one house) causes a NET DEFICIT each year of 14K to 20K PER FAMILY. Guess who's paying for it? Yep...you and me.
Do you know how much ALL of the CURRENT illegals will cost the U.S. during their lifetime (after amnesty, they'll be on the SS or SSI roles)??? It's a NET DEFICIT of $9 TRILLION DOLLARS!!!
That's approximately 1/2 of our National Debt right now!!! We can't afford it, and it will get worse.
My family is in the military...right now, the government doesn't have the darned funds to fix the planes and equipment to make the bases run, or to protect our country. instead of training, performing health care, maintaining equipment, etc, our military is having to cut the grass and clean up around the bases. Is that what you want our soldiers doing???
Again, understand, that the US is in an economic crisis right now...WHY on earth, should we be compromising our country's safety and our tax dollars on people coming into our country ILLEGALLY???? THAT'S THE CRIME, FOLKS!
Look up the research and report on the Real Cost of Illegals by the Heritage Foundation, and you will see page upon page of substantiated reports and charts from the US Census Bureau, DHS, and the DHHS. To allow any more illegals into our country will DECIMATE us! Both through "measurable" services (welfare, food stamps, and other services), as well as through costs pertaining to education, roads, police and firefighter support, and on and on.
The panel of economists who performed all of this researched have verified everything (and they themselves have been "verified"), were "transparent" about their data and resources...bottom line, is that we MUST close our borders and start deporting illegals, as this is UNSUSTAINABLE!!!
Just stop and think about this for a moment...if, as all of the research has indicated, we don't stop the flow and don't start deporting, our America will sink and become even more poor than we are now (we're something like the 34th poorest country in the world right now...). We will SINK. We will become like the countries of Central America and Mexico!!!
Did any of you happen to see the Official Border Patrol Agency report last week with Governor Perry? Look it up...it might educate you to know what's REALLY going on with these illegals. For instance, in the past year alone, over 600 "OTM" illegals were caught who are suspected terrorists or from terrorist countries - Pakistan, Syria, etc. They say that this is a only a fraction of the suspected terrorists
who have slipped in past our border, and who've spread throughout the country. Sleeper cells, they are told. Do you want this to continue?
The Agents also said they've asked "O"bama for the National GuardRIGHT NOW, as 80% and more of the agents are "babysitting"...the border is very porous and unprotected right now. "O" wouldn't even meet them with Gov. Perry to hear directly from the Border Agents who are screaming for help!
This is tragic, and unbelievable!
There's so much more I want to say and share, along with resources that I think everyone needs to read.
I can't believe the venom here that's been posted by a few of you...sure, I have compassion, and would LOVE to help EVERY poor and threatened person on this earth. There are ways to do that without taking in every single one of them!!!
I ask you to go to the Illegal Immigration forum and read particularly the threads on the "200 protest nationwide and the march on Washington", along with "what did you see on the news last night". There is SO much information there, especially quotes from cited resources, and references and links to very informative articles. Please read, and educate yourself!!!
We MUST come up with long-term solutions that we ALL can live with...but first and foremost, we MUST close our borders, and STOP the crazy storming of our borders by these illegals...kids as well as adults.
Thanks for listening, Dandiday
I truly do believe you when you say you have compassion, Jess, but you have to stop filling your mind with these websites that don't.
I truly do believe you when you say you have compassion, Jess, but you have to stop filling your mind with these websites that don't.
And you, smithy77, need to be open-minded and truly research this issue. Why is it that you refuse to do so? Researching an issue involves reading both sides of an argument with an open mind. It doesn't mean dismissing a source because you automatically assume it is lies. If you did truly have an open mind and approached things that way, you would see that the "other side" does indeed make valid points.
How about you dissect DandiDay's post statement by statement and tell us what you think is incorrect and provide links to back up your assertion?
And you, smithy77, need to be open-minded and truly research this issue. Why is it that you refuse to do so? Researching an issue involves reading both sides of an argument with an open mind. It doesn't mean dismissing a source because you automatically assume it is lies. If you did truly have an open mind and approached things that way, you would see that the "other side" does indeed make valid points.
How about you dissect DandiDay's post statement by statement and tell us what you think is incorrect and provide links to back up your assertion?
Hey, I've read the articles that you and Jess posted. I know all the talking points on the right. Come to think of it, I haven't even read anything on this issue from the center or left, except for an article about the Pope's dismay over the whole matter. My primary source for this initially was a story in the Omaha World Herald, a pretty conservative newspaper. Maybe I need to explore some centrist and liberal publications to balance out my thinking. How about you doing the same. It might round out your thinking; maybe you'll learn something outside of your bubble. I consider myself to be a broad-minded guy, but I don't understand or accept the innate, reflexive meanness I always see on this issue from the right. I consider this, like the Pope does, to be a moral issue that needs to be addressed in a humane manner. I'm not going to address Jess' essay above, since most of it doesn't address this particular issue, but it addresses illegal immigration in general. I probably agree with many of her points, but that's a discussion for another thread.
Hey, I've read the articles that you and Jess posted. I know all the talking points on the right. Come to think of it, I haven't even read anything on this issue from the center or left, except for an article about the Pope's dismay over the whole matter. My primary source for this initially was a story in the Omaha World Herald, a pretty conservative newspaper. Maybe I need to explore some centrist and liberal publications to balance out my thinking. How about you doing the same. It might round out your thinking; maybe you'll learn something outside of your bubble. I consider myself to be a broad-minded guy, but I don't understand or accept the innate, reflexive meanness I always see on this issue from the right. I consider this, like the Pope does, to be a moral issue that needs to be addressed in a humane manner. I'm not going to address Jess' essay above, since most of it doesn't address this particular issue, but it addresses illegal immigration in general. I probably agree with many of her points, but that's a discussion for another thread.
Smitty77---You are rather close-minded.
I most certainly read articles in various publications. As I mentioned previously, I could read a left-leaning article and find value in it, the same with a right leaning article.
If anyone lives in a "bubble", I suspect it's you. Once again:
Do you have any flophouses filled with illegal aliens in your neighborhood?
Have you seen your schools get destroyed by illegal immigration?
Do you know anyone who has lost his/her livelihood due to illegal immigration?
I'm guessing that the answer is "no" to all of the above questions. Am I correct? If so, you, indeed, do live in a "bubble". Hey, if I lived in a "bubble", I would be oblivious to the problems caused by illegal immigration.
So, do you think that we should send cargo planes to Africa? After all, many Africans would gladly trade places with people from Central America. Do you think that we should take in the entire third world?
Our population is now over 300 million. We are running out of potable water. Doubt it? Even WaPo had an article admitting to this. We simply can not continue to take in the third world without descending into third world status ourselves.
Is it "inhumane" to say that "Charity starts at home?" Or do you think the "humane" thing to do is ignore our own suffering citizens and put illegal aliens first and foremost?
I gather that you don't have any descendants. Perhaps if you did, you would be thinking as to what this country would be like for them if we take in the entire third world.
Smug arrogance is an ugly characteristic, and so typical of right-wing talking points. Yes, my heart bleeds for these kids. I'm glad I have the capacity for empathy. Some of us are able to look beyond our own noses and our own selfish needs. Callous indifference to, and mocking of the plight of others, I think, is a character disorder, and all to common in the modern world, especially among conservatives.
Awfully wide brush you're painting here with on conservatives. I'm a life long conservative and I don't share the same views as many on the extremist side like the one above. Many conservatives can think for themselves and without the extremist tea party views just like not all liberals are as extreme as some. I have compassion for these kids coming over and am conflicted on what to do with them. I believe Corey Stewart is grandstanding and knows they YFT did not have to obtain PWC's permission to bring those kids in. They're here now so we should likely find a way to keep them here. But I also want us doing a better job is closing down the border.
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