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We are being told all the time how rich Northern VA is. I suspect that is lying with statistics.
Sure we have a number of well off affluent folks who work as lawyers, doctors, engineers, IT Workers and analysts. But the typical person living and working in Northern VA is struggling with low wages, an incredibly high cost of living and decreasing job opportunities due to federal cut backs.
If you took out the 10% elites in NOVA and added in the cost of living here the typical NOVA person is struggling. I doubt the average person in NOVA has a better standard of living than someone in suburban Kansas City, Minneapolis or Omaha.
Statistics lie. The typical middle class person in NOVA does not have a standard of living any better than a typical town due to an incredibly high cost of living and wages not that much higher than Middle America. The 10% elite income makes it seem like everyone is doing well here.
The typical person in Fairfax is a teacher, a truck driver, a barber, a retail clerk, a janitor, or an Administrative Assistant. These people are not any more well off than someone doing similar work in suburban Kansas City. Likely worse off due to our high cost of living.
Last edited by I'm Retired Now; 07-29-2014 at 07:26 AM..
Oh look, another loaded question from the retired guy.
"The U.S. Census Bureau reports that five of the counties or county-equivalents nationwide with the highest median household income in 2012 were located in Northern Virginia. Among them were Arlington County, at $99,255, Fairfax County, at $106,690, Falls Church (an independent city), at $121,250, Loudoun County, at $118,934, and Stafford County, at $95,927. Falls Church and Loudoun also had among the lowest poverty rates in the country."
What does this mean? It means that in Northern Virginia, 2 Million people average 6 figures a year. Considering a lot of those are dual income families, that means the average family is pulling in at least 200K a year. Will that buy you a mansion like it would in Omaha? No, but there's a reason no one wants to live in those places you mentioned. 200K a year will get you a house around 700-800K, which is pretty nice, even for this area.
OF course, I suspect that your question was actually intended to bring out a response like mine, which will then allow you to reframe the discussion about "all of those horrible overpaid government workers are terkin our jobs!"
Since you retired, you've spent a lot of time on the Virginia forums trying to cause trouble. I like how when someone responds to you and blows your argument out of the water, you simply stop responding (such as the case here : Live outside Northern VA, what do you think of it? )
But the typical person living and working in Northern VA is struggling with low wages,.
Please provide data to prove that the "typical" person in NoVA is struggling with low wages.
Quote:
Originally Posted by I'm Retired Now
If you took out the 10% elites in NOVA and added in the cost of living here the typical NOVA person is struggling.
Once again, do you have facts to back up that assertion? Where do you get than only 10% of the people here make a lot of money?
Quote:
Originally Posted by I'm Retired Now
I doubt the average person in NOVA has a better standard of living than someone in suburban Kansas City, Minneapolis or Omaha.
"Standard of living" is very subjective, but I can say that we have dozens of the world's best museums in our backyard (for free) and can get to the beautiful mountains or ocean within 1.5 hours. Can Kansas City, Minneapolis, or Omaha claim that? Or, is your standard of living only referring to house size?
Quote:
Originally Posted by I'm Retired Now
The typical person in Fairfax is a teacher, a truck driver, a barber, a retail clerk, a janitor, or an Administrative Assistant. These people are not any more well off than someone doing similar work in suburban Kansas City. Likely worse off due to our high cost of living.
Now I will admit that I don't have facts to back this up, but if I had to guess, the "typical" person in NoVA is an IT analyst.
What you are really trying to say is that those people in traditionally lower wage jobs will have a harder time here in NoVA because it is so expensive. No one will argue that. But there must be some reason why NoVA has people who are doing those jobs. Hmm.....I would suspect it is because they feel the overall "standard of living" works for them.
Again you are lying with statistics. The 10% elite's income mess up the figures. If you have five people making $35K a year and one billionaire then the average income of the six people is a $million +. But that does not mean the average person is doing all that well.
Would you admit that the people doing the middle class jobs I mentioned in my first post would likely have a higher standard of living in Minneapolis where the cost of living is so much less?
Quote:
Originally Posted by YellowKing
Oh look, another loaded question from the retired guy.
"The U.S. Census Bureau reports that five of the counties or county-equivalents nationwide with the highest median household income in 2012 were located in Northern Virginia. Among them were Arlington County, at $99,255, Fairfax County, at $106,690, Falls Church (an independent city), at $121,250, Loudoun County, at $118,934, and Stafford County, at $95,927. Falls Church and Loudoun also had among the lowest poverty rates in the country."
What does this mean? It means that in Northern Virginia, 2 Million people average 6 figures a year. Considering a lot of those are dual income families, that means the average family is pulling in at least 200K a year. Will that buy you a mansion like it would in Omaha? No, but there's a reason no one wants to live in those places you mentioned. 200K a year will get you a house around 700-800K, which is pretty nice, even for this area.
OF course, I suspect that your question was actually intended to bring out a response like mine, which will then allow you to reframe the discussion about "all of those horrible overpaid government workers are terkin our jobs!"
Since you retired, you've spent a lot of time on the Virginia forums trying to cause trouble. I like how when someone responds to you and blows your argument out of the water, you simply stop responding (such as the case here : Live outside Northern VA, what do you think of it? )
"The U.S. Census Bureau reports that five of the counties or county-equivalents nationwide with the highest median household income in 2012 were located in Northern Virginia. Among them were Arlington County, at $99,255, Fairfax County, at $106,690, Falls Church (an independent city), at $121,250, Loudoun County, at $118,934, and Stafford County, at $95,927. Falls Church and Loudoun also had among the lowest poverty rates in the country."
What does this mean? It means that in Northern Virginia, 2 Million people average 6 figures a year. Considering a lot of those are dual income families, that means the average family is pulling in at least 200K a year.
I could be wrong, but when it says "median household income," I take that to generally mean the entire income of everyone living in the household. I do not think it is the case that the average family in NoVA is pulling in $200k+ per year.
Assuming my reading of the data is correct, I do actually think the question raised by OP (although perhaps not in the way in which OP is raising it) is an interesting one. Yes, median household income in this area is high, but so is the cost of housing. I actually think the cost of living in regards to a lot of other things is not significantly higher here than in many other places around the country. But, housing certainly is. Are the higher incomes in this area zeroed out, so to speak, but the higher cost of housing, or are the incomes high enough that, even with the higher cost of housing, families are able to save more and live better than in other parts of the country? I don't think the answer to this question is entirely clear, and I so think it can be argued both ways.
Of course, "standard of living" means different things to different people as well. I think many people put too much weight on their housing in measuring their standard of living - they think about how much further their money could go on housing if they only lived somewhere cheaper. Someone could easily have a higher standard of living being in a small, older house than living in a new, large house.
If you think someone is "lying with statistics", you need to provide some to prove them wrong.
Quote:
The typical person in Fairfax is a teacher, a truck driver, a barber, a retail clerk, a janitor, or an Administrative Assistant.
Quote:
Sure we have a number of well off affluent folks who work as lawyers, doctors, engineers, IT Workers and analysts...If you took out the 10% elites in NOVA...
You've provided no basis for "lawyers, doctors, engineers, IT Workers and analysts" making up only 10% of the population here, nor have you provided any statistics that deal with what the "typical" Fairfax person makes.
The statistics for median income are the best way to estimate what a "typical" household makes. Median household income means that 50% of households make more than that number and 50% of households make less than that number. Even if the top 10% were making millions of dollars more than the other 90%, the top 10% would not be able to skew the median household income statistic.
Would you admit that the people doing the middle class jobs I mentioned in my first post would likely have a higher standard of living in Minneapolis where the cost of living is so much less?
Please define "standard of living".
If the people doing the middle class jobs you mentioned agreed with you, why have they not all flocked to Minneapolis?
Again you are lying with statistics. The 10% elite's income mess up the figures. If you have five people making $35K a year and one billionaire then the average income of the six people is a $million +. But that does not mean the average person is doing all that well.
Would you admit that the people doing the middle class jobs I mentioned in my first post would likely have a higher standard of living in Minneapolis where the cost of living is so much less?
I think you're confused by the difference between mean (or average) and median. When the median household income is $100k, that means 50% households make more than that and 50% of households make less than that. When calculating the median, it doesn't matter how much the top 10% make or how little the bottom 10% make.
When you speak of the "average person," it's sort of hard to know what you're referring to. I mean, more than 50% of households in NoVA bring in pretty healthy incomes. Yes, there are certainly poorer people in the area who have a very difficult time given the lack of affordable housing. I think you're making too much of the top 10% and not focusing on the real question which, in my opinion is whether, for those bringing in healthy incomes in this area, is there higher income simply being gobbled up by higher housing costs or, are they still making more money such that they are financially better off than people where the cost of living might be cheaper. I don't think the answer is a clear cut one, as you seem to believe.
I do actually think the question raised by OP (although perhaps not in the way in which OP is raising it) is an interesting one. Yes, median household income in this area is high, but so is the cost of housing. I actually think the cost of living in regards to a lot of other things is not significantly higher here than in many other places around the country. But, housing certainly is. Are the higher incomes in this area zeroed out, so to speak, but the higher cost of housing, or are the incomes high enough that, even with the higher cost of housing, families are able to save more and live better than in other parts of the country?
This, to me, is a much more interesting and complex topic than debating the OP's erroneous 10%-skewing-the-stats hypothesis.
One thing to remember is that some of the jobs here just aren't found in other parts of the country. Someone in a generic IT job might be making 100k here and 80k somewhere else. That kind of income differential could very well "zero out"- you'd get the same standard of living in both places. On the other hand, someone in a very specialized job might be making 100k here and only 50k elsewhere since the very specialized job they're in here doesn't exist elsewhere. That kind of income difference would not "zero out".
So, I guess, the answer is, as usual, "it depends".
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