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Old 09-10-2014, 05:11 PM
 
Location: New-Dentist Colony
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Quote:
Originally Posted by car54 View Post
I wouldn't be a bit surprised if those dogs are, or can be trained to "alert" on command. I would like to think that couldn't happen in the good ole U. S. of A., but with the monetary incentive LE has now....anything's possible.
I'm not (yet) cynical enough to think any of them are trained to alert on command--but I could see that the dog might pick up on unintentional nonverbal cues from the LE officer--or just think he smells something he doesn't. I will say if a dog alerts on a car and it turns out there's nothing illegal in the car, the driver should be compensated for the damage and time wasted. The dogs aren't supposed to make mistakes, I don't think.
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Old 09-10-2014, 05:23 PM
 
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I don't know. In videos I've seen of dogs searching cars, the handler is gesturing and talking some strange lingo to the dog the whole time.
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Old 09-10-2014, 05:29 PM
 
Location: New-Dentist Colony
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Quote:
Originally Posted by car54 View Post
I don't know. In videos I've seen of dogs searching cars, the handler is gesturing and talking some strange lingo to the dog the whole time.
You know, I forgot that. But what would be the point of making the dog alert if there's nothing there? And if the cop is pretty sure there are drugs in the car, why would he need to get the dog to alert? Wouldn't the dog do so anyway? The talk could just be motivational talk to keep the dog searching.

I seem to recall that this is a certain giant-shoed forum member's area of expertise...
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Old 09-10-2014, 05:39 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlingtonian View Post
But what would be the point of making the dog alert if there's nothing there?...
Probable cause.
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Old 09-10-2014, 06:27 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by car54 View Post
Probable cause.
Yes, that's how they can state that they have probable cause. It's a very old tactic.
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Old 09-10-2014, 09:09 PM
 
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I posted this in another thread;

Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus View Post
I had something similar happen to me years ago; will not go into details, but basically the police illegally searched a house I was visiting, and illegally confiscated items in the house that took months to get back.

Edit; I will not give details due to privacy and overall sensitivity of the whole affair to others who still reside in the area; No charges were ever filed for anything as we did not do anything wrong, but actually called the cops on the people who were doing wrong.

Oh, and for those people who were doing wrong? The police never even bothered to follow up, they simply went next door to ask what was happening, the person basically said "nothing" (I am guessing because the cops were over there for all of one minute), then the cops attention turned on us.
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Old 09-11-2014, 02:31 AM
 
Location: Virginia-Shenandoah Valley
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Quote:
Originally Posted by car54 View Post
What I wonder about is the dogs.

If you refuse to consent to a search of your car, then they need probable cause. So, here comes the dog. If the dog "alerts" then they have carte blanche to ransack your car and dump your luggage out on the side of the road.

I wouldn't be a bit surprised if those dogs are, or can be trained to "alert" on command. I would like to think that couldn't happen in the good ole U. S. of A., but with the monetary incentive LE has now....anything's possible.
I don't believe they are trained anywhere to alert on command but dogs can be cued if a handler is not careful. I can watch a team in practice and know exactly when the cue a dog into a final response. There are many ways of doing this and the handler is not even aware they are doing it so proper training is important. Can I say there is not a few unscrupulous handlers in the US? No I can't but I would hope the system would eventually weed them out, no pun intended, and they go to jail.
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Old 09-11-2014, 02:33 AM
 
Location: Virginia-Shenandoah Valley
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Quote:
Originally Posted by car54 View Post
I don't know. In videos I've seen of dogs searching cars, the handler is gesturing and talking some strange lingo to the dog the whole time.
Please don't assume anything based on this. A K9 is taught to follow a handler's hand and talking to the dog while working is not unusual.
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Old 09-11-2014, 10:42 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigfoot424 View Post
Please don't assume anything based on this. A K9 is taught to follow a handler's hand and talking to the dog while working is not unusual.
I use to frequently to go (we called it escorting, but really partnering with) with the k9 (both bomb and drug) when in the military; they talked to the dogs and guided with their hands often. Seemed the drug dogs were talked to and guided more than the bomb dogs, but do not know if that is how it is, or just the difference in the handlers.
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Old 09-11-2014, 03:46 PM
 
Location: New-Dentist Colony
5,738 posts, read 8,943,215 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigfoot424 View Post
Please don't assume anything based on this. A K9 is taught to follow a handler's hand and talking to the dog while working is not unusual.
I have no problem with the use of the dogs, but as I said before, if the dog alerts, a search is conducted, and nothing is found, then an innocent person has in effect been punished via damage to the vehicle, stress, and time lost.

Do they test the dogs for accuracy and weed out (ha) the dogs who alert on everything?

By the way, I have to tell you (no disrespect) how much of an eye-roller I find it that police dogs are called "K-9 units." I get the pun, but would you guys write in an incident report, "Brought matter 2 a10tion of the magistr8"? Tell your fellow trainers/handlers: Just call 'em dogs!
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