Which school pyramids are considered "desirable" in Fairfax County? (Burke: home, buyers)

[claremarie]

Your question is very simple, but the answer is not. The factors you list -- schools, neighborhood, house size, yard size, commute to DC -- will have to be prioritized. Most new houses are very large, but the lots are small, especially if they are being built as an enclave in an already established neighborhood. Some of these new mini-developments are located in neighborhoods with much more modest homes, and the local schools may reflect those demographics. The commute to DC by car will be easier from most McLean locations, but some parts of Vienna near the Metro might work better for those interested in public transit.
To get what you really want, you might have to buy a tear-down on a large-ish lot and start from scratch, though it may well cost more than you want to spend.

[rarebucky]

So we visited Enclave of McLean today. Very nice but none of the homes have sold. They want $1.4 mm for the biggest one but they said it was "very negotiable". Pluses for us are closer-in location, McLean school district and small cul-de-sac. Minuses are smaller homes than what we've seen in Vienna (5200 finished sf vs. 6500 sf) and similar small lots. So today didn't help our decision any, it just made it more complicated. I don't like the fact that that none of the 4 have sold but that just tells me they're overpriced more than anything else. Same goes for Tysons Chase as it seems the prices there are still the same prices as in 2006. Maybe at $1 mm these become a buy? For $1.4 mm we have very high expectations and these didn't meet them. Any thoughts?

[tankdude]

Originally Posted by rarebucky

So we visited Enclave of McLean today. Very nice but none of the homes have sold. They want $1.4 mm for the biggest one but they said it was "very negotiable". Pluses for us are closer-in location, McLean school district and small cul-de-sac. Minuses are smaller homes than what we've seen in Vienna (5200 finished sf vs. 6500 sf) and similar small lots. So today didn't help our decision any, it just made it more complicated. I don't like the fact that that none of the 4 have sold but that just tells me they're overpriced more than anything else. Same goes for Tysons Chase as it seems the prices there are still the same prices as in 2006. Maybe at $1 mm these become a buy? For $1.4 mm we have very high expectations and these didn't meet them. Any thoughts?

I think none of those homes have sold because real estate is tough right now. Not everyone can get a loan to buy a house at that price range.

You can have your high expectations met with 1.4 mil if you are willing to buy an infil or a previously occupied home that is probably next to less valued homes, but you aren't.

The Enclave hasn't been there that long. I think they just finished building the model home not too long ago, plus, they are a small builder and don't advertise like a NV Homes or Stanley Martin.

I think a "good" price for those two larger homes is probably around 1.2 mil with all the options/upgrades including closing help.

The closer you are to the beltway, the better your home will hold its value. In fact, that location is inside the beltway.

With regard to real estate, your home will always be in demand/someone will want to buy it, if it's close to public transportation, close to shopping, close to jobs, and has great schools. The Enclave has that.

For the two smaller homes, I would say around 1 mil.

Most of the homes over in Stockwell Manor did go for around 1.5 mil, but you can kind of figure it because it's a nice medium sized community that looks high end.

I don't know whether you are local, but that's the nature of real estate in this area.

I know you want a larger home, but with that comes a high utility bill and maintenance costs. How large is your family?

Like I said, if you can handle it ($2.2 mil), consider Chalice Crest in McLean. Gorgeous homes, gorgeous community and road leading up to community, top notch schools, and easy access to Arlington, DC, and 495. If you can handle the price, you sure as heck won't regret buying there.

Sekas Homes - Northern Virginia and Suburban Washington D.C.'s Premiere HomeBuilder

[rarebucky]

Can't afford more than $1.5 mm unfortunately so Chalice Crest is out of the question (unless Sekas is really in distress and wants to really negotiate). Also drove through Stockwell Manor and was unimpressed by both the home designs and the spacing of the lots - they are literally right on top of each other. The homes look rather small as well. I guess those sold for $1.5+ mm at the height of the market because there is no way those would sell at those prices now. I certainly though Enclave was a better buy than those.

[tankdude]

Originally Posted by rarebucky

Can't afford more than $1.5 mm unfortunately so Chalice Crest is out of the question (unless Sekas is really in distress and wants to really negotiate). Also drove through Stockwell Manor and was unimpressed by both the home designs and the spacing of the lots - they are literally right on top of each other. The homes look rather small as well. I guess those sold for $1.5+ mm at the height of the market because there is no way those would sell at those prices now. I certainly though Enclave was a better buy than those.

You're right, but buying a home in McLean is about making compromises unless you have money coming out of your ears.

Check out some of these MLS listings:

FX6970648
FX6974518
FX6939302
FX6975481
FX6950808
FX6767143
FX6907455
FX6831892
FX6862053
FX6963354

You should also consider Arlington, but before that, get a realtor to help you out, as most builders will pay the realtor the commission, but of course, may give you a discount if there is no realtor.

For the most part, a realtor is not needed for new construction

[Denton56]

One part of the stimulus bill is for every home buyer to get $15,000 from the government. It's suppose to push people to buy new homes. But in this area, it's not that much money.

[tankdude]

Originally Posted by Denton56

One part of the stimulus bill is for every home buyer to get $15,000 from the government. It's suppose to push people to buy new homes. But in this area, it's not that much money.

That should only apply to new home buyers, and, it should be capped at at least 1 mil for the house.

Otherwise, it'd be like the Republicans giving tax breaks to multimillionaires....not those that need the breaks.

[JEB77]

Originally Posted by tankdude

If you're so insecure about Marshall that you have to defend it everytime the school is mentioned, then why did you buy into the Marshall district? That's why you overhype this trending of SATs of Marshall over Madison without looking at the fine details. These details show that whites, asians, low income, handicap, and ESOL students at Madison are trending up and are doing better than the same demographics at Marshall.

Maybe you were hoping that down the line, the boundaries would be redrawn where your neighborhood school would become Langley or TJ would become a neighborhood school and be in your boundary.

I won't defend Marshall every time the school is mentioned, because most references to the school are deservedly positive. I will defend it when it gets bashed or casually denigrated by you or other posters with their own agendas.

I bought in the Marshall district for quite a few reasons - including the fact that new housing was being constructed on large lots in Vienna at reasonable prices; access to the Dulles Toll Road, and Routes 66, 7 and 123 was excellent; and most of the people we spoke to stated that Marshall was already good and almost certain to improve - which has turned out to be correct. A comparable house in McLean would have cost much more given its greater proximity to DC (and, at the time, there were not as many jobs in the Tysons/Dulles Corredor area). We also liked the proximity to the Town of Vienna, which we felt was more charming than downtown McLean (if such a place exists).

The chances of my neighborhood being redistricted to Langley in the future are nil, and I am fine with that. If you'd read my other posts - and I know you don't keep track - you'd know that I have never suggested that TJ either should or would be turned back into a neighborhood school. I believe that having a magnet school in Fairfax County is a good thing that raises the aspirations of students throughout the county; in addition, there's no compelling capacity-based argument to support turning TJ back into a neighborhood school given the excess capacity that exists at Falls Church and Stuart.

Originally Posted by tankdude

BTW, the population density around Vienna/Dunn Loring near Tysons Chase is ridiculous also, with the number of apartments, townhomes, and the long strip of real estate offices and hotels and Subway along Gallows. Then there's the huge Navy Federal Credit union and office buildings smack in the middle of a residential area on Electric Avenue. I sure as heck wouldn't want to live near there.

What makes even more sense is to buy a home that's already in the McLean HS disctrict with the slim possibility that it may be redistricted to Marshall in the future, rather than buying a home that's currently Marshall and will remain Marshall, like Tysons Chase.

The population density right around Gallows near Dunn Loring is high, as is also now the case near the West Falls Church metro station close to the Enclave. However, there are still quite a few neighborhoods quite close by that are traditionally suburban, with large houses on lots that are considerably larger than the typical lot in McLean. That may be better for some families and worse for others. Similarly, Freedom Hill/Kilmer/Marshall may be a better choice for some families than Haycock/Longfellow/McLean. For example, Freedom Hill has one of the county's special education centers for younger children; Kilmer, like Longfellow, also has a GT center but is in much better physical condition than Longfellow (which is slated for future renovation but unlikely to be finished with renovations until at least 2013); and I've already cited the number of students in the McLean HS district (and other AP schools) who pupil placed to Marshall. It was not a negligible number.

I agree that, if having one's kids attend McLean HS is among a family's top priorities in purchasing a home, it makes more sense to buy a home that's currently in the McLean HS pyramid, but might be redistricted in the future, than buying a home that's already in another school district. That's pretty obvious, isn't it?

The issue, however, is whether there's such a significant difference between the McLean pyramid and neighboring pyramids that other factors that are relevant to a family's decision should be heavily discounted. I can imagine that, if someone paid a very large amount of money - particularly in the past two years or so - to live in a new or older house or townhouse on a small lot in the McLean HS district - he or she would urge others to make the same decision. I'm not saying that's an unreasonable choice, only that it's not the only rational one. People who inquire on this board generally are trying to "do the right thing" by their families when buying a home, and trying not to make a choice they'll regret. I'm trying - perhaps in vain - to make clear there are lots of good choices and that one need not follow the "Zagat Guide" approach when picking a school district.

[JEB77]

Originally Posted by rarebucky

So we visited Enclave of McLean today. Very nice but none of the homes have sold. They want $1.4 mm for the biggest one but they said it was "very negotiable". Pluses for us are closer-in location, McLean school district and small cul-de-sac. Minuses are smaller homes than what we've seen in Vienna (5200 finished sf vs. 6500 sf) and similar small lots. So today didn't help our decision any, it just made it more complicated. I don't like the fact that that none of the 4 have sold but that just tells me they're overpriced more than anything else. Same goes for Tysons Chase as it seems the prices there are still the same prices as in 2006. Maybe at $1 mm these become a buy? For $1.4 mm we have very high expectations and these didn't meet them. Any thoughts?

You're making it tough on us!

Are you sure Francis Young doesn't work for you? There are still houses for sale in that Sekas development (in the Madison pyrmaid) and you'd be close to the Dulles Toll Road which connects to 66.

If the Marshall pyramid is OK with you, you may want to consider the new Sekas development (Thistle Ridge). I think Sekas (whose own house, incidentally, is in the Marshall district) planned to build larger, more expensive houses on those lots between $1.5-2.0 million (the lots are bigger than those at either Francis Young or Chalice Crest). With the economy what it is, however, you may be able both to drive a hard bargain and customize your house. The neighborhood feeds into Wolftrap Elementary rather than Freedom Hill. Wolftrap is less diverse than Freedom Hill, and those who place a lot of emphasis on test scores in picking school districts like this school (as well as neighboring Westbriar). Thistle Ridge is a bit closer to the Toll Road than Francis Young.

If you want to be in McLean pyramid, can you rent for a while (longer) and see what happens with the prices. There is not much movement in the resale market for properties over $1 million and it seems that more of the upper-bracket properties that are selling right now feed into the Cooper/Langley pyramid than into the Longfellow/McLean pyramid. [Check the FranklyMLS site if you want to see yourself.] If that trend continues, it may place some downward pressure on prices in the McLean pyramid.

[JEB77]

Originally Posted by Denton56

Jeb,
Your latest long post was terrific. I wanted to give you another positive rating, but they won't let me, they say I need to 'spread it around'. In any event, you have presented a lot of excellent information.

You are so knowledgeable on school issues. I am wondering how. Are you on any of the school board or superintendent's committees? Just curious. Wondering if I know you.

No - I'm just a long-time county resident who has watched the county grow and change over many years and, hopefully, developed some perspective along the way. I also pay attention to what others have to say on these issues. I have learned a great deal from your posts and agree with many, but not all, of your observations on the Fairfax school system.