Which school pyramids are considered "desirable" in Fairfax County? (Chantilly: low income, appointed)

[claremarie]

The "top" school pyramids, as measured by data such as SAT scores, will generally track pretty closely with socioeconomic level, as measured by income and cost of real estate. It is not irrational or unreasonable or snobbery for parents, especially those who are new to an area, to seek out the "top" school pyramids for their children. These are communities with highly educated families, many of whom have chosen their residence based on the schools' reputations. They pay attention to things like the AP program, the college advisory services, the orchestra, etc. If you want to increase the odds that your children will have classmates who are focused on educational achievement, with neighbors who are actively involved in the school community and organizations that support achievement, then it makes sense to seek out those top pyramids.

That doesn't mean that students at other schools can't have great experiences and be admitted to good colleges, but moving to a new area is often like rolling a dice, so why not make decisions that increase, rather than decrease, the odds of such good educational experiences? This is particularly true for parents of five year olds, who have no idea if their child will be a Division I college football prospect, a music prodigy, a science geek, or an average student who needs to be pushed into demanding courses. And, of course, choosing a home in a top school pyramid also generally pays off at resale time.

[Skapov]

Originally Posted by slim04

The schools with the highest test scores are Langley, McLean, Woodson, Oakton, Madison, Lake Braddock, and Robinson, in that order. Any lower schools that feeds into these schools should be pretty good.

Where did you find this information? My research shows that West Springfield HS out-ranks Lake Braddock and Robinson, and this is why my husband and I chose to place an offer on a home in 22152 (West Springfield) instead of 22015 (Burke). Please back up your data.

[Skapov]

Originally Posted by JEB77

I agree that some of the prior posts on this thread seemed to reflect advice to focus on a very small number of the county's schools, accompanied by warnings to stay away from an equally small number of schools - which happened to have higher levels of students speaking English as a second language and/or lower-income students. It made me a bit queasy, when the distinctions between many schools (apart from TJ) are relatively insignificant in the scheme of things.

For those seeking general information, here are the average SAT scores of the Fairfax schools for the Class of 2008:

TJ 2183
Langley 1824
McLean 1759
Woodson 1745
Oakton 1710
Marshall 1680
Madison 1674
Lake Braddock 1673
Robinson 1646
Herndon 1636
Chantilly 1621
West Springfield 1621
Westfield 1620
Centreville 1595
South County 1581
Falls Church 1568
South Lakes 1568
Lee 1563
Fairfax 1553
Stuart 1536
West Potomac 1530
Annandale 1523
NATIONAL AVERAGE - 1511
Hayfield 1503
Edison 1488
Mount Vernon 1475

In addition, US News and World Report also recently published rankings of the nation's top public schools. Eleven Fairfax schools were included:

TJ (Gold Medal - #1)
McLean (Gold Medal - #55)
Langley (Gold Medal - #76)
Woodson (Gold Medal -#90)
Chantilly (Silver Medal)
Lake Braddock (Silver Medal)
Madison (Silver Medal)
Marshall (Silver Medal)
Oakton (Silver Medal)
Robinson (Silver Medal)
Stuart (Silver Medal)

It really is critical to keep in mind that, in a region as diverse as Fairfax County, there are plenty of high-achievers at the schools with the lower averages, and low-achievers at schools with higher averages. The efforts of individual parents and students are what count at the end of the day.

Thank you for posting the actual data! However, I am heartbroken, because after spending 2 months on these forums, where everyone told me that West Springfield HS was one of the top pyramids, my husband & I placed an offer on a home that is in the heart of that pyramid. Now, I learn that the school didn't even place for a SILVER MEDAL in U.S. News & World Report but it is too late for me to rescind the offer.

WHY DID PEOPLE LIE ABOUT THE QUALITY OF WEST SPRINGFIELD HS??!!

[JEB77]

Originally Posted by Skapov

Thank you for posting the actual data! However, I am heartbroken, because after spending 2 months on these forums, where everyone told me that West Springfield HS was one of the top pyramids, my husband & I placed an offer on a home that is in the heart of that pyramid. Now, I learn that the school didn't even place for a SILVER MEDAL in U.S. News & World Report but it is too late for me to rescind the offer.

WHY DID PEOPLE LIE ABOUT THE QUALITY OF WEST SPRINGFIELD HS??!!

I hope that's firmly tongue in cheek. You should still be very happy in the WSHS district. Just bug the powers that be to renovate it before 2030.

[JEB77]

Originally Posted by Skapov

Where did you find this information? My research shows that West Springfield HS out-ranks Lake Braddock and Robinson, and this is why my husband and I chose to place an offer on a home in 22152 (West Springfield) instead of 22015 (Burke). Please back up your data.

I'm not sure where the other poster obtained the data. I provided the data on SAT scores for graduating seniors from the Class of 2008. A group called FairfaxCAPS also did a study of the performance of students on the Virginia state Standards of Learning tests. You can find it at the attached link. WSHS was highly ranked - 9th out of the 25 county schools. I don't recall how WS fared vs. Lake Braddock or Robinson, but either way the distinctions should not be giving you cause for concern. These schools are not identical, but they are all strong.

FYI - Some people dislike the Fairfax CAPS group immensely for positions they took during a recent redistricting, and they come close to ax-grinding on occasion, but I do find some of their studies interesting.

FairfaxCAPS - Fairfax Coalition of Advocates for Public Schools

[JEB77]

Originally Posted by claremarie

The "top" school pyramids, as measured by data such as SAT scores, will generally track pretty closely with socioeconomic level, as measured by income and cost of real estate. It is not irrational or unreasonable or snobbery for parents, especially those who are new to an area, to seek out the "top" school pyramids for their children. These are communities with highly educated families, many of whom have chosen their residence based on the schools' reputations. They pay attention to things like the AP program, the college advisory services, the orchestra, etc. If you want to increase the odds that your children will have classmates who are focused on educational achievement, with neighbors who are actively involved in the school community and organizations that support achievement, then it makes sense to seek out those top pyramids.

That doesn't mean that students at other schools can't have great experiences and be admitted to good colleges, but moving to a new area is often like rolling a dice, so why not make decisions that increase, rather than decrease, the odds of such good educational experiences? This is particularly true for parents of five year olds, who have no idea if their child will be a Division I college football prospect, a music prodigy, a science geek, or an average student who needs to be pushed into demanding courses. And, of course, choosing a home in a top school pyramid also generally pays off at resale time.

There are plenty of folks trying to do right by their families and to some degree looking through their posts to justify their own decisions and protect their property values.

I do take some of your points; indeed, I often think the schools in McLean must be quite good when I see how much some people have shelled out for homes in McLean that are not particularly impressive for that part of the county.

I have spent some time recently looking at the differences between the schools in Fairfax and Montgomery County. The schools in Montgomery more closely resemble what you would expect to find if everyone took all your advice to heart - they are becoming increasingly polarized with a group of schools that look like Langley and McLean and an equally large, if not larger, group of schools that seem rapidly to be falling further behind. At least personally, I am quite happy that Fairfax has so many options and so many schools that truly are diverse while remaining well above the national averages.

[mpascal]

This is exactly my point. It is snobbery if you've made the decision that children in schools without the highest SAT scores come from uneducated families and those not involved in school activities. Again, these are gross generalizations based on nothing other than SAT scores. And, making a decision about a high school when your child is 5 is not always indicative of what that school will be 10 years in the future.

As stated in a previous post, parents certainly are entitled to where they believe their children will thrive most, but there is ample evidence among the posts in this thread that people make decisions that are not entirely informed, but based on rumor and comments from others. I wonder how many people truly spend time researching the schools before making decisions. Do you tour? Sit in on classes? Talk to staff? Students? Investigate activity programs? My point is that it's easy to make decisions based on test data and rumors when that's not the whole picture, generalizing that those families are not interested in education and don't get involved.

[Skapov]

Originally Posted by JEB77

The schools in Montgomery resemble what you would expect to find if everyone took all your advice to heart - they are becoming increasingly polarized with a group of schools that look like Langley and McLean and an equally large, if not larger, group of schools that seem rapidly to be falling further behind.

You are absolutely correct! We rent an apartment in Prince Georges County currently, in the lovely community of Upper Marlboro, but the schools aren't up to our standards. Well, after doing the researching I was STUNNED to learn that many of the schools in Takoma Park, Silver Spring, Germantown, etc. rank lower than the PG Schools. Everyone is always bashing PG schools and they rave on and on about how *great* the Montgomery schools are, yet that county is totally polarized. Yeah, Bethesda/Chevy Chase/Potomac/Rockville have good schools, but the other schools/communities are going downhill quick.

Middleclass families in Maryland are now moving over to Howard County, but my husband & I can't go that far so that's why we've decided to move over to Fairfax County, and definitely the schools seem more equitable there (though some of you seem to be AGAINST equality).

[claremarie]

There is a direct correlation between academic performance, including SAT scores, and socioeconomic level. It is not snobbery to observe that students with high SATs tend to come from families with high levels of education (and income), and that students with low SATs tend to come from families with lower levels of education (and income). It is not snobbery to prefer to send one's children to a school with many high-achieving students rather than a school with many low-achieving students. Have you ever attended a school with a substantial number of low-achieving students? Are you aware of how much energy and resources such students suck away from the principal, teachers, and other staff? Are you aware of how the presence of so many indifferent students can poison the atmosphere for their classmates?
It is impossible for most families to spend weeks researching the public school options as you suggest -- sitting in on classes, taking tours, scheduling meetings with principals and athletic coaches, and the like. It is far more efficient to rely on objective indicators, such as test scores, college admission statistics, and AP class participation rates. I don't fault parents for taking the more efficient approach,

[mpascal]

I guess we can agree to disagree---I don't think either of us will change the other's opinion. I do think if parents are as concerned about sending their kids to the best schools as many claim to be, then the investment in time to research is worth it, rather than go for what's most efficient. My point also is that often parents do not use objective indicators--they are quick to use subjective ones. I said earlier on that SAT scores at least are data-based. I've been referring to those who make decisions simply based on word of mouth and zip code without looking further.

I'm not looking to argue, I just think our approach to the issue comes from two very different perspectives.