Which school pyramids are considered "desirable" in Fairfax County? (Annandale: mortgage, neighborhood)

[springfieldva]

Originally Posted by Skapov

Thank you for posting the actual data! However, I am heartbroken, because after spending 2 months on these forums, where everyone told me that West Springfield HS was one of the top pyramids, my husband & I placed an offer on a home that is in the heart of that pyramid. Now, I learn that the school didn't even place for a SILVER MEDAL in U.S. News & World Report but it is too late for me to rescind the offer.

WHY DID PEOPLE LIE ABOUT THE QUALITY OF WEST SPRINGFIELD HS??!!

West Springfield is a very good school with SAT scores well above the national average. You made a fine choice. Relax.

[tankdude]

Originally Posted by JEB77

So - my understanding of your position is that the Fairfax system as a whole is problematic because it has a smaller percentage of White students than the general US population, but you'd still send your kid to the five schools (other than TJ) that have at least 64% White students.

Given that the Fairfax system as a whole is strong, and there are at least another 16 schools in the county where test scores exceed the national averages, sometimes by substantial amounts, I find this a bit arbitrary, but you should obviously try and pick the schools you want.

Your "understanding" of my position is incorrect.

Really, I couldn't care less which school has the most number of whites. I named 5 schools that I'd be interested in based on their reputation of being great NoVA high schools. It just so happened that of those 5 schools, two are above the white demographic for the US, and 3 are below, which again, drifts away from my point.

Then, you responded by noting that they have the least number of low income students.....to which I responded that I really couldn't care less. I haven't figured out nor have I met anyone who desires to choose a neighborhood or pyramid or school based on it having a high number of disadvantaged students.

[tankdude]

Originally Posted by springfieldva

West Springfield is a very good school with SAT scores well above the national average. You made a fine choice. Relax.

In this area and in general, you have to pay to play.

If you want the best schools, the homes in that area will cost more.

Can't be more simple than that.

[JEB77]

Originally Posted by tankdude

Your "understanding" of my position is incorrect.

Really, I couldn't care less which school has the most number of whites. I named 5 schools that I'd be interested in based on their reputation of being great NoVA high schools. It just so happened that of those 5 schools, two are above the white demographic for the US, and 3 are below, which again, drifts away from my point.

Then, you responded by noting that they have the least number of low income students.....to which I responded that I really couldn't care less. I haven't figured out nor have I met anyone who desires to choose a neighborhood or pyramid or school based on it having a high number of disadvantaged students.

OK. So I guess you really were just repeating the view - repeatedly articulated by some other posters on this thread - that there are effectively only five schools in the county with a "great reputation." You went a little further than saying these were the schools that "interested" you; instead, you announced that they were the only schools you would even "consider." It is apparently coincidental that they happen to be the schools with the highest percentage of Whites, and clearly irrelevant that other county schools have comparable or higher test scores, other county schools also have been recognized by leading national publications as among the nation's top schools, and almost all of the county's schools perform at levels above the national average.

I do think that's a pretty snobbish perspective of the type that tends to give NoVa a bad name in many quarters, but I'll leave it at that, since I don't think it comes even close to reflecting the views of most county parents and students.

[springfieldva]

Originally Posted by tankdude

In this area and in general, you have to pay to play.

If you want the best schools, the homes in that area will cost more.

Can't be more simple than that.

I'm tempted to make a Blago joke, but I'll restrain myself.....

[tankdude]

Originally Posted by JEB77

OK. So I guess you really were just repeating the view - repeatedly articulated by some other posters on this thread - that there are effectively only five schools in the county with a "great reputation." You went a little further than saying these were the schools that "interested" you; instead, you announced that they were the only schools you would even "consider." It is apparently coincidental that they happen to be the schools with the highest percentage of Whites, and clearly irrelevant that other county schools have comparable or higher test scores, other county schools also have been recognized by leading national publications as among the nation's top schools, and almost all of the county's schools perform at levels above the national average.

I do think that's a pretty snobbish perspective of the type that tends to give NoVa a bad name in many quarters, but I'll leave it at that, since I don't think it comes even close to reflecting the views of most county parents and students.

You may consider it snobby, but it is a freedom and right for anyone contemplating a move to NoVA to target a pyramid.

In fact, I provided 5 HS choices.

If I instead mentioned only one option to consider, and that being Langley, then it would be understandable if you considered it snobbish. But, I didn't. Langley of course, is 74% white, and has a student population where <1% qualify for free or reduced lunch.

[Denton56]

Jeb,
When someone moving to FC wants to know which high schools have the highest number of disadvantaged students and the lowest test scores, we'll be sure to respond and give them a list of those schools.

It is hardly racist to give people a list of the best high schools, even if they are largely white and Asian. So get off Tankdude's back.

Perhaps you are unaware that when you say nice things about Vienna you are directing people to the whitest high school in Fairfax county, Madison. Only 3% of Madison is Black, over 75% white, and 94% speak English as their first language. Is it racist to say that Vienna is a nice place to raise a family and Madison is a good high school? Of course not, because it is the truth.

[JEB77]

Originally Posted by Denton56

Jeb,
When someone moving to FC wants to know which high schools have the highest number of disadvantaged students and the lowest test scores, we'll be sure to respond and give them a list of those schools. It is hardly racist to give people a list of the best high schools, even if they are largely white and Asian. So get off Tankdude's back.

Perhaps you are unaware that when you say nice things about Vienna you are directing people to the whitest high school in Fairfax county, Madison. Only 3% of Madison is Black, over 75% white, and 94% speak English as their first language. Is it racist to say that Vienna is a nice place to raise a family and Madison is a good high school? Of course not, because it is the truth.

I'm quite sure Tankdude can take care of himself. We've made our points - he's identified the high schools he likes, and my view is that his frame of reference is narrow and may reflect unstated assumptions that he may not have fully considered. I will continue to respond to his posts as I see fit, not because I want to engage in a tit-for-tat, but because I want prospective NoVa residents to understand there are competing views and that there are many excellent schools in the county.

In saying nice things about Vienna (apart from its undue concentration of mattress stores, which, along with its ticket-prone local Police Department, are a bit disconcerting), I was not specifically steering people toward Madison - I will leave that to you. Vienna students attend numerous high schools, including Langley, McLean, Madison, Marshall, Oakton and South Lakes. Many Town residents do seem to equate Vienna with the Town of Vienna and suggest that Madison is the only Vienna high school, but I don't. You are correct, however, that McLean, Marshall, Oakton and South Lakes - all fine schools as well - have a more diverse student body than Madison (which has the second-highest concentration of White students in the county after Langley).

[Skapov]

Originally Posted by Denton56

Jeb,
When someone moving to FC wants to know which high schools have the highest number of disadvantaged students and the lowest test scores, we'll be sure to respond and give them a list of those schools.

It is hardly racist to give people a list of the best high schools, even if they are largely white and Asian. So get off Tankdude's back.

But many of you people are missing the point because you are comparing apples to oranges when arguing about "the best schools". You have to look at the subgroup, because honestly, affluent upper-middleclass white children tend to score well on SATs no matter which schools they attend. It is borderline-racist to steer parents to certain pyramids based on the overall SAT average. Please see the below example:


West Springfield HS (7.47% black, 1400 black SAT avg.)
Lake Braddock HS (5.6% black, 1518 black SAT avg.)
Robinson HS (5.75% black, 1538 black SAT avg.)
Lee HS (16.04% black, 1541 black SAT avg.)

Now, as an African-American parent, for my child Lee HS would be the better choice, because not only would there be more diversity, but my child would be more likely to get a higher SAT score. The average SAT for white students at Lee HS is 1693, nearly the same as what white students score at Langley/Mclean/Oakton/Madison etc.!!

That said, Lee HS has 25% Hispanic population, and they score 1448 SAT avg., so this is dragging down the whole school average, but a white/asian/black parent should have no fear of sending their child to Lee HS because those subgroups are performing at the same level as other well-regarded FCPS.

[Tone509]

Originally Posted by Skapov

But many of you people are missing the point because you are comparing apples to oranges when arguing about "the best schools". You have to look at the subgroup, because honestly, affluent upper-middleclass white children tend to score well on SATs no matter which schools they attend. It is borderline-racist to steer parents to certain pyramids based on the overall SAT average. Please see the below example:


West Springfield HS (7.47% black, 1400 black SAT avg.)
Lake Braddock HS (5.6% black, 1518 black SAT avg.)
Robinson HS (5.75% black, 1538 black SAT avg.)
Lee HS (16.04% black, 1541 black SAT avg.)

Now, as an African-American parent, for my child Lee HS would be the better choice, because not only would there be more diversity, but my child would be more likely to get a higher SAT score. The average SAT for white students at Lee HS is 1693, nearly the same as what white students score at Langley/Mclean/Oakton/Madison etc.!!

That said, Lee HS has 25% Hispanic population, and they score 1448 SAT avg., so this is dragging down the whole school average, but a white/asian/black parent should have no fear of sending their child to Lee HS because those subgroups are performing at the same level as other well-regarded FCPS.

I certainly respect where you're coming from... although I think once you remove West Springfield from the equation, you're essentially splitting hairs on the SAT scores. Then again, I can see how the diversity would be important as well.

All of that said, I'm compelled to make a point that I and others have repeated often on this forum: as an "average" FCPS school is better than most nationwide, involved parents can motivate their kids to be successful academically whether you're at Langley or South Lakes.