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Old 10-01-2015, 09:38 AM
 
Location: San Diego
35,182 posts, read 32,161,514 times
Reputation: 19743

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWatchmen View Post
If pro-gun folks cannot comprehend the reasons why some people do not want a gun store directly adjacent to their neighborhood elementary school, I'd say they are being willfully ignorant, but that would be far too kind.

The thinly veiled snide conjectures about how people just need to be "educated" about firearms are tiring.

Guns kill people. Instantly. Violently. Victims of gun violence often die by no choice of their own. This is what many people see in guns. Fast food, cigarettes, alcohol, and pharmaceuticals are not used in that same manner.

I'm happy to report that I know many people in Northern Virginia who do not own guns, do not normalize the practice of gun ownership, and who would be appalled at a gun or any other sort of weapon store opening up adjacent to their neighborhood elementary school. This board is not an entirely accurate cross section of Northern Virginia, probably because there are so many people piping in from the far outer corners of the region.
A safe bet that if you added up all the guns in the houses within 1000 feet of the school it would probably be pretty close to the same tally as the store.

Another safe bet is that the owners of said guns don't have the training or licensing the shop employees do.
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Old 10-01-2015, 09:52 AM
 
Location: Savannah, GA
650 posts, read 411,432 times
Reputation: 517
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWatchmen View Post
If pro-gun folks cannot comprehend the reasons why some people do not want a gun store directly adjacent to their neighborhood elementary school, I'd say they are being willfully ignorant, but that would be far too kind.

The thinly veiled snide conjectures about how people just need to be "educated" about firearms are tiring.

Guns kill people. Instantly. Violently. Victims of gun violence often die by no choice of their own. This is what many people see in guns. Fast food, cigarettes, alcohol, and pharmaceuticals are not used in that same manner.

I'm happy to report that I know many people in Northern Virginia who do not own guns, do not normalize the practice of gun ownership, and who would be appalled at a gun or any other sort of weapon store opening up adjacent to their neighborhood elementary school. This board is not an entirely accurate cross section of Northern Virginia, probably because there are so many people piping in from the far outer corners of the region.

First and foremost, as someone who owns firearms and has been around them for a while, to include work-related reasons, I view the "pro-gun" term typically used when referring to those that are a bit off; the types of folks who walk around with rifles, handguns, etc. displaying them openly just to prove a point. Not my cup of tea. Firearms are a tool, whether used for hunting, recreational shooting, or self-defense. Hence I do not go around spouting the pro-gun rhetoric, but I do wonder occasionally why some are so opposed to posessing these tools, when they can leagally and intelligently own them and use them should a reason arise.

Since I have made the gun education comment earlier, let me clarify. There is no argument that guns kill people; instantly and violently. Car accidents do to, so do high-voltage accidents, fires, etc. The point of the argument, or should I say discussion here, is rather that access to these 'instruments of death' is controlled when they are sold in a store; a child cannot walk into the store and access these tools. Also, even if there was an increased risk (one that is derived via a reliable risk assessment) of the gun store being in close proximity to a school, then at what point or distance from the school, that risk diminish or become acceptable?

While this particular store is located in NoVA - where I myself reside, the issue could be replicated in any corner of the US, hence the input from those with an opinion on the matter, even though they may not be directly affected by this particular store's location.
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Old 10-01-2015, 10:12 AM
 
948 posts, read 673,974 times
Reputation: 960
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWatchmen View Post
If pro-gun folks cannot comprehend the reasons why some people do not want a gun store directly adjacent to their neighborhood elementary school, I'd say they are being willfully ignorant, but that would be far too kind.

The thinly veiled snide conjectures about how people just need to be "educated" about firearms are tiring.

Guns kill people. Instantly. Violently. Victims of gun violence often die by no choice of their own. This is what many people see in guns. Fast food, cigarettes, alcohol, and pharmaceuticals are not used in that same manner.

I'm happy to report that I know many people in Northern Virginia who do not own guns, do not normalize the practice of gun ownership, and who would be appalled at a gun or any other sort of weapon store opening up adjacent to their neighborhood elementary school. This board is not an entirely accurate cross section of Northern Virginia, probably because there are so many people piping in from the far outer corners of the region.


Not willfully ignorant at all. If the shop backed up to a high school, I could understand the uproar better. High school students past their 18th birthday can purchase some firearms legally. If an 18 year old student wanted to buy a gun on his way home from school, he could. That is not the case here where the students (all well under the age of 18) are not the customers of the shop.

I also don't think anyone is being snide about gun education. Guns exist, and people should have some sort of gun education even if it is as simple as "don't touch and find an adult." A gun store near the school could be an amazing teaching moment for a parent who can explain the dangers of firearms. I do think that gun education changes people's perspectives on gun ownership. Generally, after shooting a gun, people understand how it could be a fun and entertaining pastime even if it's not their cup of tea.

The disconnect here is that the two sides are coming from 2 opposite world views.
The gun owners look at themselves and see law abiding citizens who have fun shooting sometimes.
The anti-gun shop folks see a deadly weapon with no purpose except to cause physical harm through murder or suicide.
The anti-gun side is not going to convince gun owners that they are potential murderers, and the gun owners are not going to convince anti-gun people that guns are harmless fun.
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Old 10-01-2015, 11:21 AM
 
Location: D.C.
2,227 posts, read 1,856,043 times
Reputation: 3491
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ffxdata View Post

The disconnect here is that the two sides are coming from 2 opposite world views.
The gun owners look at themselves and see law abiding citizens who have fun shooting sometimes.
The anti-gun shop folks see a deadly weapon with no purpose except to cause physical harm through murder or suicide.
The anti-gun side is not going to convince gun owners that they are potential murderers, and the gun owners are not going to convince anti-gun people that guns are harmless fun.
Exactly, and hence my "circular reference" comment a few pages back.

If the pro-gun crowd wants my thinking to shift away from how strongly I think guns suck and how the NRA is far more lethal and harmful to the American lifestyle than any terrorists cell, nation, or organization in the past 50 years, all they have to do is tell me why on earth they think a citizen should have the right or need to acquire a gun beyond a hunting rifle, shot gun, or hand gun. Limit the choices. You want a hand gun? Fine, we have two options - a 6-shooter 38 and/or a 9 clip 9mm. You want to hunt? Ok, we have a Browning single action. Need protection for the home? How about a 12 gauge.

But that's not what the pro-gun world wants. Give an inch, and they want the foot. And if they can't get it, then they revert to a document that is 225 years old and written for a time when the population base wasn't 1/10th of what it is today, horses were our means of transportation, witch craft was a real concern, and the average life expectancy of a male was barely 35 years.

Case in point:

A young man walked into an elementary school, specifically a classroom of autistic children, and murdered them by blowing holes the size of softballs through their faces with an AR15, a gift given to him by his parents. An entire community devastated both emotionally and financially (think you're gonna sell your home in Newton, CT anytime soon?).

Yet, not a SINGLE restriction has come from that horrific event to our society. Not a single F'N ONE!!!! In fact:

A) The NRA wants more guns in our schools.

B) I can legally buy an even more "efficient" AR15 today.

Seen any movies lately?

If the pro-gun world wants me to even remotely listen to them, then they need to acknowledge that their "rights" are running wild in our society, and THEY need to help address this obvious problem in a manner to make those who do not share in their same beliefs feel comfortable with them as well. It's called a compromise. Guns are American. I get it. A joke of mine is that GOD Bless America stands for "Guns Oil Debt". But, why is it that only the anti-gun population base seems to have an issue with such weapons as the AR15?

As far as I'm concerned, the biggest idiots in the room aren't those who have raped the second amendment to give us this culture today, but those who have allowed them to do so.

I get the hunting aspect. I get the self protection aspect. I get the sport aspect. I get it. I'm fine with that (as a compromise myself). But I don't get why anyone would ever think, especially given the events of the past 36 months alone, that placing a gun store next to a collection area of our nation's most precious and beloved gifts is even remotely tasteful or acceptable. In my opinion, it's low class, it's insulting, and it is representative of the core problem I have with that lifestyle in general. Want me to change my mind? Then help remove all assault weapons from our culture. Leave them to the properly trained collective forces to use (police, military). Which several highly educated scholars have given significant argument to as the real intention and meaning of the 2nd amendment in general (society to form an army for self protection against an outside aggressor).

I haven't even mentioned Charleston here yet. But happy to go down that road too. Who wants to make a bet that the NRA is in favor of banning a piece of cloth, instead of the actual assault rifle used to kill those innocent people? Funny how you can't buy a silly little flag anymore, but you sure can buy an AR15! For the record, I am southern by the grace of God (Alabama, North Carolina, and N. Florida), and think the rebel flag is an obnoxious and insulting symbol of past mistakes made.

Last edited by NC211; 10-01-2015 at 11:29 AM..
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Old 10-01-2015, 11:25 AM
 
5,071 posts, read 8,640,279 times
Reputation: 2722
Quote:
Originally Posted by HokieFan View Post
It's a sad state of affairs that folks would deliberately take business away from a locally owned, small business that has no connection to the gun shop other than they pay rent to the same guy.

For those that are strongly opposed to the location, the right thing to do is to take the issue to your elected officials and get the zoning laws changed.
The landlord of the gun store in McLean is the owner of the business next door and the person who decided to lease the space to the gun store. So the situation is actually different in that regard than the situation was in Arlington, which is more along the lines of what you were purporting to decry.

Last edited by JD984; 10-01-2015 at 11:36 AM..
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Old 10-01-2015, 11:35 AM
 
5,071 posts, read 8,640,279 times
Reputation: 2722
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
A safe bet that if you added up all the guns in the houses within 1000 feet of the school it would probably be pretty close to the same tally as the store.

Another safe bet is that the owners of said guns don't have the training or licensing the shop employees do.
You lose. Much of the area within 1000 feet of the gun store is school property and other retail space.

The training of the shop employees is irrelevant, as their financial incentive is to sell as many weapons to as many people they can in the shortest amount of time possible.
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Old 10-01-2015, 12:32 PM
 
601 posts, read 441,174 times
Reputation: 339
Quote:
Originally Posted by MedvedActual View Post
Hence I do not go around spouting the pro-gun rhetoric, but I do wonder occasionally why some are so opposed to possessing these tools, when they can legally and intelligently own them and use them should a reason arise.

.


Because some people don't want firearms in their home. Period. There is no other reason needed. I've got 30+ years of life under my belt, and have never felt the need to own a firearm.
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Old 10-01-2015, 12:52 PM
 
Location: Savannah, GA
650 posts, read 411,432 times
Reputation: 517
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWatchmen View Post


Because some people don't want firearms in their home. Period. There is no other reason needed. I've got 30+ years of life under my belt, and have never felt the need to own a firearm.

Point taken; 30+ years of life here as well and needed them on quite a few (perfectly justifiable) occasions/places of employment. No point in arguing back and forth as clearly our life experiences are different and that is the key driver of one's needs when it comes to firearms.

Maybe because of my expriences, my view is that there are some bad seeds out there, doing bad things to good people, on a daily basis, and while the likelihood of one of us running into one or more of these individuals may be low, the risk is always there. With that said, presence and proper use of the said firearm in a warranted situation (as a last resort) may prevent loss of one's life or those of loved ones, other innocent folks, etc. Just a thought.
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Old 10-01-2015, 01:22 PM
 
5,071 posts, read 8,640,279 times
Reputation: 2722
Quote:
Originally Posted by MedvedActual View Post
Point taken; 30+ years of life here as well and needed them on quite a few (perfectly justifiable) occasions/places of employment. No point in arguing back and forth as clearly our life experiences are different and that is the key driver of one's needs when it comes to firearms.

Maybe because of my expriences, my view is that there are some bad seeds out there, doing bad things to good people, on a daily basis, and while the likelihood of one of us running into one or more of these individuals may be low, the risk is always there. With that said, presence and proper use of the said firearm in a warranted situation (as a last resort) may prevent loss of one's life or those of loved ones, other innocent folks, etc. Just a thought.
Or, perhaps, the proliferation of and easy access to guns will just lead to more school shootings.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/10/02...y-college.html

When the latest tragedy is investigated, do you not think there will be more focus on the assailant than on whether the seller was a "nice guy"?

Last edited by JD984; 10-01-2015 at 01:53 PM..
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Old 10-01-2015, 01:32 PM
 
601 posts, read 441,174 times
Reputation: 339
Oregon shooting: Reports of 10 dead at Umpqua Community College - CNN.com

10 people killed. 20 injured.

It is just too easy.
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