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Old 10-08-2015, 07:42 AM
 
601 posts, read 442,052 times
Reputation: 339

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEB77 View Post
It's almost certainly harder to get a rescue dog from a local shelter than it is to buy a gun at that store that could kill or injure dozens of people.
And gun manufacturers and retailers seem to be eerily exempt from liability for anything.
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Old 10-08-2015, 08:40 AM
 
Location: NOVA
4,521 posts, read 5,242,931 times
Reputation: 1928
Quote:
Originally Posted by JEB77 View Post
Actually, people have repeatedly discussed the risks associated with guns. You made foolish statements that no kids could possibly get hurt due to this store, and within hours the Oregon shootings had occurred with multiple homicides at yet another place of learning. Exquisitely bad timing on your part.

It is a matter of common sense that locating a gun store near a school - given the repeated, demonstrated propensity of sick people to shoot up schools - at a minimum may cause anxiety among local students and parents. From what I've read, some people have already pulled their kids from the school. Harder to measure, but impossible to ignore if you actually have skin in the game, is that it makes it logistically easier for a sick person to acquire a gun legally (or illegally if the owners aren't quite as upstanding as you assume) and go on a rampage.

Your arguments about what you can do in 'Merica are both frivolous and wrong. Under current Supreme Court interpretations (which could change in the future, as Second Amendment jurisprudence has been anything but consistent), you currently have a Second Amendment right as an individual, assuming you are not disqualified due to a prior felony, diagnosed mental illness, etc., to own a firearm and keep it at your residence.

However, even under those decisions, local jurisdictions may regulate where and how firearms are sold. The fact that they may currently have a legal right under Virginia law to operate the store in that location does not trump other laws, current or future. The zoning laws might be changed, with no grandfathering of this location, or FCPS conceivably might decide to exercise its rights of eminent domain under current Virginia law to lay claim to the land. Or there might be someone who will essentially give in to the landlord's fairly transparent efforts to blackmail the community, buy the property and terminate the current lease. The only thing I know for sure is that this store will never be welcome in the community at that location, just as residents of your county made it quite clear they would not welcome the business. Can you point me to the thread where so you argued so fervently that Arlington residents should get over it and welcome this business?

The views of those in McLean opposing this store's location are by no means on the fringe. What's a little more bizarre is how we've now been besieged by out-of-towners, who just have to show us how fantastic open carry is: https://www.facebook.com/Coalitionto...iolence?ref=nf Be honest, and ask yourself if you really want guys showing up at your next PTA meeting (assuming you have kids, and I'm not sure you do) armed to the teeth.
You spent 25 min writing the same material and tying together unassociated events without addressing the previous questions. If your intent is to keep this thread near the top then you're winning. If, by highlighting Culpeper, guns, school advocacy without admitting you're wrong then you're losing those that you're trying to convince. How can we better support this business?
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Old 10-08-2015, 09:20 AM
 
5,073 posts, read 8,650,413 times
Reputation: 2737
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnsonkk View Post
You spent 25 min writing the same material and tying together unassociated events without addressing the previous questions. If your intent is to keep this thread near the top then you're winning. If, by highlighting Culpeper, guns, school advocacy without admitting you're wrong then you're losing those that you're trying to convince. How can we better support this business?
And you have little to say other than that you disagree and now you're going to drive however many miles this weekend to buy some ammo in McLean.

In the long run, I think those opposed to this store's location will prevail. People have too much invested in McLean and the local schools to accept this business in that location.
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Old 10-08-2015, 09:33 AM
 
948 posts, read 677,570 times
Reputation: 960
Quote:
Originally Posted by JEB77 View Post
And you have little to say other than that you disagree and now you're going to drive however many miles this weekend to buy some ammo in McLean.

In the long run, I think those opposed to this store's location will prevail. People have too much invested in McLean and the local schools to accept this business in that location.

Perhaps, but the fact remains that the guy was doing enough business not only stay in business but to move to a bigger location. He recognized that there was a market and--so far--has done well. Your opposition has been vocal and consistent, but it doesn't counteract the business he has been able to build.

And you can't say it was the controversy that was driving the business as there had been none before his move.
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Old 10-08-2015, 09:36 AM
 
Location: New-Dentist Colony
5,740 posts, read 8,988,325 times
Reputation: 3858
Quote:
Originally Posted by JEB77 View Post
Actually, people have repeatedly discussed the risks associated with guns. You made foolish statements that no kids could possibly get hurt due to this store, and within hours the Oregon shootings had occurred with multiple homicides at yet another place of learning. Exquisitely bad timing on your part.
Are you seriously asserting that this tragedy was a result of the proximity of a gun shop to that school? Now who's making foolish statements?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEB77 View Post
It is a matter of common sense that locating a gun store near a school - given the repeated, demonstrated propensity of sick people to shoot up schools - at a minimum may cause anxiety among local students and parents.
Since when do we let such "anxieties" trump someone's right to do something? In the '60s, white Southern parents had anxieties about letting African American kids into their schools. Tough luck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEB77 View Post
Your arguments about what you can do in 'Merica are both frivolous and wrong.
Ah, so now you invoke comical dialect to paint me as some Larry the Cable Guy type. Glad to see you're sticking to facts and logic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEB77 View Post
Under current Supreme Court interpretations (which could change in the future, as Second Amendment jurisprudence has been anything but consistent), you currently have a Second Amendment right as an individual, assuming you are not disqualified due to a prior felony, diagnosed mental illness, etc., to own a firearm and keep it at your residence.

However, even under those decisions, local jurisdictions may regulate where and how firearms are sold. The fact that they may currently have a legal right under Virginia law to operate the store in that location does not trump other laws, current or future.
I never said their right to put the business there is based on the 2nd Amendment; it's not. (That pertains to individual ownership/possession and has nothing to do with businesses.) It's the 14th Amendment--the right to equal protection under the laws.

Yes, governments have the right to regulate how firearms are sold--but that's the point. It has to be laws that determine that, not an angry mob. And those laws have to be in accordance with the Constitution, including 14A. If someone can prove in court that this store will pose a clear and present (not theoretical) danger to the public, then they can try to pass a law to prevent this store in this location.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEB77 View Post
The zoning laws might be changed, with no grandfathering of this location...
Then so be it. The point here is that LAWS, not the emotional objections of other citizens, are the only thing that can be legitimately used to deny someone the right to do something. And those laws have to not violate the Constitution.

I notice you conveniently ignored the examples I gave above. But they're very similar. If a Muslim guy wanted to open a bookstore in downtown Fredericksburg, I guarantee you a bunch of locals would flip. And screw them. This is America.

It's hypocritical to say you're for ignoring loud local objections to liberal causes like gay marriage (which I fully support, by the way) but would allow such objections to block others from exercising their rights, just because you find those things objectionable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEB77 View Post
The only thing I know for sure is that this store will never be welcome in the community at that location, just as residents of your county made it quite clear they would not welcome the business. Can you point me to the thread where so you argued so fervently that Arlington residents should get over it and welcome this business?
There are plenty of Arlingtonians--including me--who would welcome that business. The opponents were a similar bunch of ignorant, emotional people for whom the word "guns" strikes in them a senseless panic--who have never bothered to look at the facts or even visit a gun store.

You would have a lot more credibility if you would just visit one yourself so you can see firsthand what it is you're so opposed to. You will be very surprised at how orderly, polite, and secure everything is.

Have you visited the Gun Dude in Falls Church? Their website almost seems to consciously cater to liberals. (Their statement on Yelp says their specialties are "First time gun buyers, females, LGBT, firearms transfers, customer service, training and community." Yeah, sounds really rednecky.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEB77 View Post
The views of those in McLean opposing this store's location are by no means on the fringe. What's a little more bizarre is how we've now been besieged by out-of-towners, who just have to show us how fantastic open carry is: https://www.facebook.com/Coalitionto...iolence?ref=nf Be honest, and ask yourself if you really want guys showing up at your next PTA meeting (assuming you have kids, and I'm not sure you do) armed to the teeth.
So now you're bringing up a totally different issue--open carry. Not going to take the bait.

I'm very interested in social and Constitutional issues--but again, I don't even own a gun. Never have. Never been hunting. Parents have never owned guns. Can't stand the NRA. (In fact, I think open carry is sort of douchey in most cases--but I would never try to invoke my personal opinion as the basis for denying someone else the right to do something.) I'm not even a libertarian.

I just don't like the idea that the strident views of a large group of people should be the basis for denying someone the right to operate a legal business in an orderly fashion, when it would endanger no one.

Last edited by Carlingtonian; 10-08-2015 at 09:58 AM..
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Old 10-08-2015, 11:17 AM
 
Location: D.C.
2,240 posts, read 1,866,429 times
Reputation: 3511
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlingtonian View Post
There are plenty of Arlingtonians--including me--who would welcome that business. The opponents were a similar bunch of ignorant, emotional people for whom the word "guns" strikes in them a senseless panic--who have never bothered to look at the facts or even visit a gun store.

Easy amigo, some of us highly educated opponents who know a thing or two about guns, gun stores, and the gun business in general, might take offense to being deemed as "ignorant" because we don't think it's a good idea to put a gun shop next to an elementary school.

I think this thread has run it's course.
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Old 10-08-2015, 11:53 AM
 
Location: New-Dentist Colony
5,740 posts, read 8,988,325 times
Reputation: 3858
Quote:
Originally Posted by NC211 View Post
Easy amigo, some of us highly educated opponents who know a thing or two about guns, gun stores, and the gun business in general, might take offense to being deemed as "ignorant" because we don't think it's a good idea to put a gun shop next to an elementary school.
Fair enough, but it sounds like you're in the minority among the "stop the store" people, many of whom seem to think a gun store is a giant outdoor flea market filled with militia types roaming around and a "take a gun/leave a gun" sign by the cash register. So yes, people who think a gun store is anything but highly secured, highly regulated (on penalty of a felony--e.g., straw purchases) and off limits to felons are in fact ignorant on this particular issue.

Someone asserted that crazy people could theoretically buy a gun at this store and then be inspired to attack the school. But mass shooters do not seem to commit their crimes on the spur of the moment; they plan them out methodically. Their gun purchases are not impulse buys, and who they choose to attack has not so far been an impromptu choice based on whatever location happens to be near where they bought the gun. And think about it: If there were any truth to the opposite contention, why would we allow a gun store to be near anything else at all?

As I said earlier in the thread, a gun store is about as much an immediate danger to anyone nearby as a pharmacy is.

I mean, we have on this thread a retired police officer who says he'd be fine with a gun store near his home. This is a person who has dealt with violent gunmen repeatedly over the decades and has probably been threatened or worse by criminals with guns. That he isn't worried about a gun store should mean something.
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Old 10-08-2015, 03:03 PM
 
Location: Virginia-Shenandoah Valley
6,597 posts, read 10,915,530 times
Reputation: 5631
Quote:
Originally Posted by JEB77 View Post
If you need driving directions, I hear that Route 66 east is pretty light in the mornings.
Sorry but you can't fool me there.
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Old 10-08-2015, 04:00 PM
 
Location: NOVA
4,521 posts, read 5,242,931 times
Reputation: 1928
Quote:
Originally Posted by JEB77 View Post
...From what I've read, some people have already pulled their kids from the school. Harder to measure, but impossible to ignore if you actually have skin in the game, is that it makes....h.
So where did you read this? Parents are absolutely pulling their kids based on a single issue and you Know this by reading.....where exactly?

Similar tactic was used by Harry Reid when he said "word is out that Mr Romney wasn't paying his taxes for a decade". Are you sure about the facts here?
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Old 10-08-2015, 04:17 PM
 
5,073 posts, read 8,650,413 times
Reputation: 2737
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigfoot424 View Post
Sorry but you can't fool me there.
OK, you got me. You should take Metro instead. It's extremely reliable, particularly on the weekends.

Last edited by JD984; 10-08-2015 at 04:26 PM..
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