How does NOVA/DC compare to NYC? (Richmond, Alexandria: townhouse, transfer)
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I currently live in Texas and will be moving to NOVA in August (I will be working in DC). I grew up in suburban NJ, and lived in NYC for three years.
Although I am hoping for the best, there seem to be several recurring themes--such as horrible traffic, unfriendly people and bad weather--that routinely come up in other posts. When I lived in NYC, all of these problems existed and I dealt with them. Can anyone compare NYC and DC/NOVA with regard to these negatives? How does everyone think DC/NOVA compares to NYC in general?
Well, the traffic is bad, but if you plan for it (live near where you work, which isn't so hard to do since things around DC are much less centralized than in New York) it's OK.
As for the people, I thought that New Yorkers could be plenty friendly, and I've never noticed DC-area people to be particularly unfriendly. I chat with people standing in lines, chat with cashiers, etc. I guess if you go right into the city and find the lowest-level worker you can (bus driver, security guard) you can probably find yourself some abuse (or DC/PG County cops, etc.), and, you know, no one is really all that nice in a traffic jam, but the people aren't really so bad overall.
DC people aren't nearly as colorful (personality-wise) as what you run across in NYC, but sometimes you only want so much of that in your day-to-day life, so I don't know if I'd call that a negative.
Housing is way more affordable than in NYC. Fewer bankers running around. Lots of people are going to pounce on me for that statement, but compare the cost of a brownstone in Brooklyn with, say, a townhouse in Chevy Chase, Maryland. The Chevy Chase townhouse is going to cost you about $1M less than the Brooklyn one, and commuting from Chevy Chase to a lot of the DC-area job centers is going to be way more manageable than commuting between the Brooklyn place and, say, downtown Manhattan. Yes, you'll sit in your car, but you won't be trudging through the snow between subway stations (above-ground transfers were the worst, especially in February. Yuck). And you can actually use the services in Chevy Chase (for example) as opposed to Brooklyn where you just don't get to have kids, because you would be out of your freaking mind to put them in the local public schools.
Oh, one more thing -- people in the DC area in general aren't quite as aware of their ethnicities as they are in New York. You know how in New York, a white person isn't just white, but is Polish or Italian or Jewish or something else first? Growing up in NOVA, the only people who ever told me their ethnicities were a couple of Italian guys from New York, a Puerto Rican guy I dated, and the kid of a foreign diplomat. The subject just didn't come up, and it didn't matter. In New York, I knew the ethnicities of all of my neighbors, and it was a subject of conversation. Not a big deal, just a funny difference.
And DC doesn't get nearly as much snow, and when it does, it usually melts in a couple of days.
I moved to NYC from NOVA last summer, and I prefer NOVA.
I can't comment on the traffic because I don't have a car here, but I grew up driving in NOVA, and I guess I got used to it - it wasn't that bad. As for people and weather, I see those negatives applied to the area, but I just don't understand why. I can't really tell the difference in how friendly/unfriendly people are. It's different because NYC is a major city, and NOVA is chain of suburbs.
As for the weahter, I've not seen any major differences so far. But it seems that DC is getting more snow than NYC this year, because it hasn't really snowed that much up here too much yet.
I grew up in Northern Virginia, lived in Jersey for awhile, had been back in Virginia for around two years, and just moved to NYC three years ago, so I'm sort of a backwards version of you.
Everyone has covered the differences pretty well. Making a comparison between Northern Virginia and NYC is largely your usual difference between suburban and urban more than anything regionally-specific in the sense that Northern Virginia is a very suburban area, which means differing demographics (more families), more chain restaurants, less public transit friendly, better schools, less frenetic pace of life, etc.
Personally, I find the weather better in Virginia. There's not a huge difference, but it's enough. New York is just that bit TOO cold for me in winter. Not to mention, our sunsets are 30 minutes earlier during the depths of winter, so it just makes for a more dreary winter experience. Summers are better in New York for most people, but for me, I deal with heat much better than cold, so I don't mind Virginia's summers.
As far as the people, they're definitely less colorful in the DC area. I personally find New Yorkers to actually be very friendly, much moreso than those in the DC area, but that's a subjective issue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanyali
Oh, one more thing -- people in the DC area in general aren't quite as aware of their ethnicities as they are in New York. You know how in New York, a white person isn't just white, but is Polish or Italian or Jewish or something else first? Growing up in NOVA, the only people who ever told me their ethnicities were a couple of Italian guys from New York, a Puerto Rican guy I dated, and the kid of a foreign diplomat. The subject just didn't come up, and it didn't matter. In New York, I knew the ethnicities of all of my neighbors, and it was a subject of conversation. Not a big deal, just a funny difference.
Funny you should mention that as it's something I've noticed as well. People in the Northeast as a whole, especially in the NYC area, wear their ethnicities on their sleeves. Like you, growing up in Northern Virginia, I paid no mind to it and was friends with people for years before their ethnicity ever came up. In NYC, it's pretty much one of the first getting to know you questions someone asks, usually right after "what's your name?" Or people will use ethnic descriptions when there's no need (i.e. "I know this guy who just got a great deal on a place...Mike, Irish guy, good guy....). There's no harm meant by it, but it's different from what I'm used to.
You will find that the NoVa driver's are about as rude as they come. Merge???? What does that mean?? No one seems to understand how to do that! Signal a lane change? That means for the car beside you to speed up and cut you off. I do NOT kid! I think it's getting worse now, than in the past--corresponding to the horendous traffic and traffic tie-ups around this area! However, once you head south, below Richmond, driver's do become more accomodating!
Oh yes, don't signal lane changes, the take that as a challenge.
Years ago, when I drove around NOVA a lot, I noticed that drivers further south in the suburbs, like Woodbridge, would band together to enforce the rules of the road. For example, if someone got on the shoulder to cut through a line of traffic, everyone in that line of traffic would band together to keep the guy shut out. He was cheating, and so he was punished. That didn't happen further up, like around Alexandria. I don't know if that still happens, or if the dividing line has moved further out.
Like you, growing up in Northern Virginia, I paid no mind to it and was friends with people for years before their ethnicity ever came up. In NYC, it's pretty much one of the first getting to know you questions someone asks, usually right after "what's your name?" Or people will use ethnic descriptions when there's no need (i.e. "I know this guy who just got a great deal on a place...Mike, Irish guy, good guy....). There's no harm meant by it, but it's different from what I'm used to.
As a native Manhattanite let me try to explain: Knowing someone's ethnicity right from the start is a way of respecting that person's value system, which might be different from one's own, so as not to offend. Keep in mind that New York City is a port of entry. New York City schoolchildren speak almost 300 different languages at home. By knowing someone's ethnicity, you can keep the relationship/conversation in the shaded/overlapping area of the Venn Diagram, so to speak. New Yorkers get along so well because New Yorkers don't try to change anyone or impose values on others. Using your example, by knowing that Mike was an Irish guy, states volumes, with the use of only a couple of words. As New York City is 48% Catholic and 48% Jewish, religion never comes up - you're statistically either one or the other, and new acquaintences quickly add that to the mix of the shaded/overlapping area of the Venn Diagram. From birth, New York City children are taught the value system of the various ethnicities and the major New York City religions and to respect same while maintaining their own culture's value system.
By the way, New York City residents live in neighborhoods with neighbors who share their values as do other Americans.
As a native Manhattanite let me try to explain: Knowing someone's ethnicity right from the start is a way of respecting that person's value system, which might be different from one's own, so as not to offend. Keep in mind that New York City is a port of entry. New York City schoolchildren speak almost 300 different languages at home. By knowing someone's ethnicity, you can keep the relationship/conversation in the shaded/overlapping area of the Venn Diagram, so to speak. New Yorkers get along so well because New Yorkers don't try to change anyone or impose values on others. Using your example, by knowing that Mike was an Irish guy, states volumes, with the use of only a couple of words. As New York City is 48% Catholic and 48% Jewish, religion never comes up - you're statistically either one or the other, and new acquaintences quickly add that to the mix of the shaded/overlapping area of the Venn Diagram. From birth, New York City children are taught the value system of the various ethnicities and the major New York City religions and to respect same while maintaining their own culture's value system.
By the way, New York City residents live in neighborhoods with neighbors who share their values as do other Americans.
Asserting that you can know someone's value system from their ethnicity sounds like plain old stereotyping to me. I don't know why you think diversity begins and ends in New York. Growing up in NoVa, I went to school with kids from around the world. The difference between that and New York, apparently, was that in Virginia, we took people more as individuals than as stereotypes.
I grew up mostly in North Jersey (Morris County) and ended up in Northern Virginia (Fairfax County), so here's my take. There isn't much difference in traffic. You have to plan your times and routes to avoid as much garbage as you can, but it doesn't always work. The Metro here is generally better than the subway there, but the coverage isn't as good. If you can take advantage of Metro here, it's a huge plus. (Many employers will pick up a nice chunk of your fare, too!) People here are just as friendly, they're just more reserved. For my money, everybody in New York is Italian. Or maybe they're all Jewish. It doesn't really matter much. They're for the most part open books (some of which would belong on the Fiction shelf) and expect you to be too. That's not the case here. People will give you some space and expect a little as well. There is tons of diversity, but it thins rapidly as you move toward the outer suburbs. It is broader here than in the NY area. There are a lot of people from everywhere here. There are ethnicities within the ethnicities. And they aren't for the most part living in little enclaves. They are for the most part intermingled all over the place. They may socialize in part by type, but they don't so much either live or work that way. The weather is essentially the same, but it's still noticably different. The average daily temperature difference is just a few degrees, but it's enough to mean that Spring comes about two weeks earlier and Fall comes about two weeks later. So, that's one month less of actual Winter, and the Winter stuff here is not nearly as Maine-like as it is there. August of course can be a killer. It can get downright oppressive. Just like in NYC. Otherwise, DC is on a smaller scale. It is all newer as well. The NYC area was more or less all developed by the start of WWII. Almost everything here was built up after WWII. The pace here isn't really so different, but the attitude toward it is. In NYC, everybody thinks they're in the go-go-go rat-race and that they have to hurry-hurry-hurry to get it all done. People here have just as much to do and it all gets done, but folks here are a little more laid back about the process...not quite so much obsession, I guess I'd say. Anyway, those are some of my thoughts on the matter for a Tuesday afternoon...
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